Geez, it's 12:40 and no one's even started a topic for this one yet?  It wasn't that bad.  Oh, wait.  

I love the tree.  The tree has been the liveliest, most entertaining character on the show all season.  I want the tree to get a spin-off.  They can call it Joss Whedon's Lumber and it goes around (in the spin-off the tree is mobile) sucking the life out of creative artists.  It's a whole metaphor for something.  Uh, sex.  Or babies.  I dunno.

We were busy talking to Tim Minear!  Apparently he and SNeaker are going to get married and she's going to have 10 million of his babies.

Wha?  Please explain immediately!

We were talking to Tim Minear in an AIM chat.  SNeaker knew his aim name and Ananda goaded her into inviting him into our chat..or Ananda invited him.  I don't remember.  He was very polite though, and quite nice about the whole thing.

Hmph.  Well, I hope his AIM writing was better than his scriptwriting tonight.  

Okay, I'm just being jealous.  What'd he say?  What'd he think of the show?

You instant-messenged Minear? Bitcas! :-)

Woo! "Angel" is back on track. Though not as good as last week's, this one makes two good ones in a row -- great real characterization again, clever funny lines, everything just feeling right and being compelling. Also, it felt like tons of story with import packed into an hour... at the halfway mark, I couldn't believe there was another half hour left, and I was excited about that. The substance of the episode just felt rich.

Between Wes and Angel, they should just rename it the Heartbreak Hotel and be done with it.  Alexis Denisof can pack a world of hurt into the word "apparently." He does the name of British repression proud.

And Fred and Gunn continue to be cute independently while together. Who knew that Wooing Gunn was three times hotter than Normal Gunn? I really wouldn't have thought of it, myself -- so thank you to whoever decided to give J. August Richards a love story to play.

And Angel killing Connor! Yay! As it was meant to be. That baby really hasn't felt real, in any case... no more so than Dawn. And I reiterate: Woo!

Okay, I actually had a lot of fun.

Because Angel is no longer, "Angel" but rather a hybrid.  I smiled and squirmed and laughed.  (even the cheap sex jokes go to me)

I guess all that bitter has freed me from caring.

Wes was very fair and even, I think, with Charles.  The fling did effect Fred's safety and, as the boss, it was his place to say something.  He really is a wonderful suffereer.  Just like when Virginia left him, I really felt for AD.

Gunn is charm on a cracker.  And the G/F ship is adorable.  They're too cutesy for words, so the mackage was a little jarring.  All in all though, it's making me smile and 'aww'.

Cordy and Gru is something else I'm enjoying.  Gru is just so much fun to have around.  He might not be much of an actor but those blue, blue contacts and endearing honesty lines are growing on me.

All in all?  Lowered expectations and a release from caring make me much happier to be watching.

But Cordy's gone fishin'?  Ruh roh!  Not for too long, I hope.

I liked it.  Mainly because it seemed to signal the sinking of the Angel/Cordy 'ship (am I just being horribly optimistic?).  I also liked that bit where everyone is standing around waiting for Wes to give them their marching instructions and Angel keeps standing on his tip-toes to try and appear taller than Groo.  It was really off to the side but it was cracking me up.

That baby really is cute but everytime it appears on screen I find myself thinking "Why haven't they killed him yet?"  Then I feel guilty because it just feels wrong to think that about a cute baby.

OT. Okay, so now I'm not as jealous. Apparently having Tim Minear in a chat turned you all into Ralph Wiggum. "Legos are square!"

Shut up!

Or, ya know, you're right.

I agree mjforty, I think a lot of the good in this episode was nonverbal and off the cuff.  Just about every scene had me appreciate something. (like Wes asking Gunn if he was free before sending him on the stakeout)

Yes.  Remember Crush?

I'm sure I would have liked it more if my building hadn't been evacuated because a neighbor had a fire in her dryer. Standing outside for an hour doesn't do much for my television enjoyment.

In spite of all that, I did like it. It was pretty well written and well acted. Did anyone else think that it was going to turn out that the tree was somehow connected to the brothel? I guess that was a red herring. This demon brothel seemed a lot nicer than the one in season one. I guess what they really needed was a good madam and much more humanoid features. Groo was much more appealing with shorter hair. His eyes are still freaky, though.

You know, much as I want the baby gone, I really don't want Angel to kill it. Maybe Angel isn't the baby's father. Darla never struck me as being particularly particular.

Normally, I don't really care to interact with the writers or actors, or whatever. But I'm so jealous that you guys got to AIM Minear during the show! Just reading the goings on would have been fun.

I'm not sure if it's a disctinct lack of the same obsession I used to have, or a lowering of standards, but I enjoyed this episode, like I have the last 3. Maybe since "Dad," anything without the baby crying is good for me.

Gunn and Fred are so adorable my heart aches, because I know in the long run it won't last. Wesley's heartache is so well acted that all I care about in an ep is him. Groo is eh, but I want Cordy to be happy and have lots of orgasms, so I'm good there. Angel is goofy and selfish, but then selfless, which is par for his course. I like Lorne as the nanny and the general guide in emotional things for the hotel. Someone on the other board referred to him as the Mrs. Doubtfire of the cast, and that descriptions suits me fine.

The problem with not having the caring I once had is that I can't bring myself to pick apart an episode, identifying the good and bad, but can have a feeling of "good" "bad" or "eh." This one was Good.

Edited because I'm wrong- I did see a Bad detail. Cordy running around chasing demons in spike heels? Puhleeze.

That's it, jenelope! The baby is really Lindsey's, conceived when Darla was human, and now he's going to come back and kill it.

You know, come to think of it, that's possible. Darla said... and seemed to think... it was Angel's, but maybe she was mistaken in the chronology. After all, a fetus could grow a lot slower in a dead woman than it would normally.

Besides, I think I saw that baby plucking a gee-tar.

The problem with talking to Minear while his episode was on, was that I thought it was crap!  I was all..."Uh, I liked the closet switcheroo" and "Where did Connor's name come from?"

It's too bad I wasn't there; I could have been praisatory.

I enjoyed it as a MOTW with a few extra touches.  Angel being a beeyatch when he's supposed to be saving lives?  Don't love that.  But, since I'm a fan of the in your face symbolism, I liked him watching the group from the shadows.  I also liked his interactions with Groo.  It's hard to be that person; on the one hand you want your friend to be happy, but on the other you want them to be happy without this other person.  

Groo's acting impressed me a lot more here than it ever did in Pylea.  The moment after Cordy said a haircut wouldn't make her like him better (which I thought was a bizarre line), was very touching.  He's such a rube, but he's such a nice rube.  I don't particularly want to see him added to the cast, but I don't want anything bad to happen to him.  I wonder if his niceness is the equivalent of a giant bullseye, though.

Fred and Gunn are still cute together, but it's a fine line.  There's only so much baby talk I can stand.  Wesley....aw, Wesley.  Does no one in this universe fall for the shy, smart ones?  Poor guy.

Also, I love how goregous everything looks on this show.  The colors and lighting are all so scrumptious.

Hey, did TM have anything interesting to say that you can share?  (I do admire the chutzpah...)


Boliver speaks for me.  Frighteningly so, actually.

I'm just annoyed with Angel-the-character still, though he's got a little bit of the selfless streak back and that helps a lot.  OTOH, I'm not sure I'm supposed to be thinking "what does Cordy see in him?" and "what is Wesley blathering on about, mission yada yada?"

On the plus side, I enjoyed the episode, and I adore Wes and Gunn and Fred and Lorne, and the end was the way I wanted to see the baby used, and woo hoo major plot developments!  So on average, I'm in favor.

SNeaker's totally right that this is "Crush" for C/A, though.

He said that Connor's name means nothing, but if I want, it could be Liam's last name.  Because he luuuurves me.  Er..

You know, we had Minear right there, in our chat with us, and we barely asked him anything.  I didn't have anything to say or ask about the episode in the IM because..well you know, but I was hoping by bringing him into the chat someone would praise him and ask questions!  Nali praised his work, right?  I think we were all a little overwhelmed by the whole thing.  At the time I was thinking that it really was too bad ejg wasn't there, although she probably would have charmed his pants off and then I'd be all jealous. :)

Heh. No danger of that. But I probably would have asked a lot of questions and made a lot of compliments. TV writers are my very favoritest people.

I asked if Numfar lead the Dance of Revolution.  And I asked how he could concentrate on writing with the Internet beckoning.

Um... and I asked him to fight over Fox's prom.

Mostly, I ate paste.

Oh, one thing I remember, after a bunch of us asked when Lorne was going to find a nice guy to take him away from all the domesticity, Minear claimed that he was trying to position Lorne as the gay sidekick, like in the old movies.  Angel is Fred Astaire in this scenario.  I guess he was sorta kidding, but I also guess he sorta wasn't.

Just as long as we don't have to see Angel dance.

Ooh - he's Erik Rhodes!  "Your-a wife is safe with Tonetti, he-a prefers spaghetti!"  Or possibly Eric Blore, who always played the butlers.  I love those movies.  And that's a more appetising comparison than with Mrs Doubtfire - what a horrible movie that was.  

Minear sounds cool.  I just wish I was more into this season (I'm rabidly spoiled in the hopes of seeing light at the end of this tunnel but basically just willing S4 to arrive with a new storyline pronto).  And I just wish I knew what they thought they were doing with the show, although obviously it would be too rude to ask like that.

Hence, my problem.

I couldn't have become his love slave *last* year?  At least then we'd already have a rapport, and I could tell him gently that I haven't enjoyed the storylines this year..

Or not.

Perhaps if he'd been listening to you since then we wouldn't have to go through this.  Hence, it's all your fault for not stalking harder, SNeak!

You didn't establish yourself as his love slave last year? So that cry of "Marry me, Timmy!" was all a sham?

Jesus, I can't believe we're already up to Season Four of "Angel." Think it will feature a band of hot women undercover in a covert military operation?

Two points:

1- I never asked him to marry me.  I said "come back, my Timmy!" which is completely different.

2- I would have gladly been his love slave last year, but he didn't take me up on it until monday night.

Oops, you're right. And the real version is even funnier.

Nono, not Tonetti.  It's Egbert who is the "gay sidekick" stereotype in Gay Divorcee.  "Let's K-nock K-nees!"  Though I do love Eric Blore, too.

But Lorne's much sexier than any of the above.  Hee.

Really?  Well, I guess I know what I'm rewatching this weekend, since it's obviously been too long!

 Yeah, wasn't that She?

Er, Couplet.  No one seems to have much to say about it, which doesn't inspire me with anticipation!

Aw, no. It was good, and fun.

In a formulaic kind of way.

Something I forgot... You know, I'm sure a lot of people think Groo's handsome now with the shorter haircut, but I was disappointed that they did it. I could easily have seen a makeover in which they gave him normal hip clothes but left the hair alone.

I mean, with the long silly hair, he looked like Groo; without it, he just doesn't. He looks like Lindsey, only with Arnold Schwarzenegger's arms... and standing on a milk pail.