Flash Forward was quite good, for a pilot, with an intriguing cast and some neat mystery. I especially liked that people listened to the main character and saw the logic in what he was saying (I suppose this show inherently casts aside the Fox Mulder, One Man Against the World cliche). I wasn't planning on adding any new shows for a while, but this one grabbed me.

I am definitely intrigued by the concept and while it was certainly full of pilot-itis, there were some things I liked too: John Cho's character, the mystery of the man in the CCTV who was awake, whatever terrible thing the babysitter saw, Jack Davenport being in it and the scale of the thing - aside from the ramifications of what they saw, the world isn't going to bounce back from the level of carnage on that day. I like Sonya Walger a good deal and am happy that her character seems to have a bit more of an edge, as she usually plays the supportive wife/girlfriend, but the "I hate you/I never want to see you again" coy lovenote stuff was icky. Joseph Fiennes is an interesting choice for the lead, he's not the square-jawed Jack Shepherd type and his American accent seemed quite good, to my ears anyway. It could do with some humour, but it would probably have been difficult to get any into the situation of that episode I guess.

(Shall we make a thread for it if a few people are watching? Seems like a show with plenty of theories to discuss)

I didn't know Jack Davenport was in it!

k, now I'm glad my mother's been saving it on the TiVo for us to watch.

He's not in the first episode much but it seems like he'll have more to do later.

I really want to like Flash Forward but I honestly don't know what they think they're doing because so far, it's falling totally short. Is this really the show they want to make? Because it's kind of boring. Are the ratings/reviews good? I don't see this becoming a smash hit. Yet it has some really good actors and even the guest stars are great - I was happy to see Gabrielle Union and Kim Dickens and Gina Torres.

A lot of logical flaws too, chiefly a) you can accept that everyone in the world had a simultaneous blackout, but not that someone reported dead in Iraq may actually be alive? and b) no one else in the world noticed the crows and no one much cared about the whole blackout/dead crow thing happening in Africa? Really? And the bird book just made me think of (and miss) Prison Break.

In conclusion: hurry the fuck up if you're going somewhere with this, writers. And can the cheesy dialogue like the bit where the FBI and the German agent traded national insults.

I can actually accept that the bird thing and Somalia aren't well known. And it might not be that these two Feds are the first people to realize either point - one thing that they were shown to be suffering from is information overload. At the end of the day, who cares about dead crows except ornithologists? The only reason they cared is because they were given a reason to care by the Nazi.

What is probably going to bug me is something that Alan Sepinwall pointed out: why don't the people in the flash forwards register that they've experienced this already? Why doesn't Mark know the gunmen will be coming? I really hope there's a reason for that and it's not a huge honking continuity error.

I'm going to keep watching, because I'm a sucker for a weird ending. But I can see this show going the Heroes route of being interesting enough that you can kind of ignore the quality issues, until it stops being interesting and they are painfully apparent. We'll see, it's still young.

Good point that others may also be looking into this. But the previous incidents, if not massively famous, should surely have provoked some conspiracy type theories, like Roswell or Tunguska or something. Can't you just see a Sci-Fi Channel documentary on the Somalian blackout? And I don't know if just ornithologists would be aware; the honey bee crisis is quite well known.

But yes, I know, I could overlook anything if it were engaging me more. After all I did love Prison Break. I just don't understand why it's not better written - I suspect some funny backstage stuff is going on.

It does seem like a lot of good ideas never get written into anything new. The Feds' argument about releasing the Nazi, for instance, had some potential, and I liked that it wasn't just one scene and then done - the woman Fed was still quite upset later and had no problem pointing fingers. But whenever I hear the word "Faith" on a network television show my skin crawls - not because I hate faith or people of it, but because it is a free ticket to some really lazy writing. "Why are you ok with releasing a monster into your own country?" "Faith." And then my eyes roll all the way into the back of my head, and that hurts.

(Before anyone brings it up, of course Lost has played the faith card many times. But John Locke has been shown to be quite possibly wrong, or at least no more right than anyone else. As long as they wrestle with it in a convincing manner, the concept of faith has dramatic potential. The problem arises when characters start tossing it out there as a reason for any action the writers can't support any other way.)

Also, enough with the flashbacks to things we've seen 15 minutes ago. If Gina Torres is talking, I'm listening.

The faith thing doesn't even make sense. If he has faith that the visions are definitely real and inevitable, then what about the parts involving his drinking or his wife cheating? What about his pal's daughter or his colleague's presumed death? You can't have 'faith' in just one part of a prophecy, so logically he should believe they are inevitable too but he's not acting that way.

Also not quite sure why the guy had to be an old Nazi, which involved them twisting themselves into knots with his age etc, but I'll give them time to show if that's going anywhere.

And you've got it - Flash Forward's been picked up for the season.

This show is weird. Tonally bizarre. I don't usually think about the tone of a show - to be one hundred percent honest, I don't always know what critics are talking about when they expound on tone. But with this show (Flash Forward, sorry, I still don't know if its worth giving it its own topic), there is tone all over the place. And it is weird! I'm repeating myself.

The oddly broad humor, the clever-but-not musical interludes, Fiennes and Vance giving themselves simultaneous acting hernias in the middle of the karaoke scene, presidential gotchas...I keep wanting it to just go over into ultra-weird territory so that all of that will feel right, but they remain otherwise fairly grounded in relationship and bureaucratic plotlines.

The show runner was recently fired, so maybe there will be a change eventually and the show will even out into something more enticing, but right now it is just incredibly frustrating.

Oh, and if they kill off the one character I feel any investment in - I think I still blame Joss Whedon for making it cool to kill your characters. Cut it out! She's probably fine, though.

I haven't seen the most recent episode, but I generally agree - and it's almost definitely a good thing that the showrunner was fired. It's got so much potential if someone could just sort it out.

I haven't seen the most recent episode, but I generally agree - and it's almost definitely a good thing that the showrunner was fired. It's got so much potential if someone could just sort it out.

A few thoughts about this most recent Flash Forward:

That is one creepy hobbit. His scenes with Daphne from True Blood were probably the best of the night, possibly because they were not connected to any of the other plots. Evil masterminds are so frequently tunnel-visioned on world domination or whatever; it makes sense that the high from pulling something like that off would give even an odd-looking shortie-pie mad charisma.

Olivia is way too good for her husband, and far too intelligent. He came off as so unlikeable here, and so rude - thank god she made the point that while he's blaming her for things she hasn't done, he's keeping secrets about behaviors that relate to ongoing and destructive patterns in their lives.

So many potential stories to tell that aren't being told - I couldn't stop thinking about the dividing line between those who want the future to come, and those who don't. I imagine groups of people who don't trying to find ways to break the future - blowing up a building they saw in their future, or killing someone they know should exist then. I'm not particularly interested in fate as it relates to real life, but if you can weave some interesting thought problems into it (as Lost has been fairly successful in doing), it can be fun and provide drama. But it's too straightforward here. I want more examination, not just recounting. For instance, Demitri - he saw nothing but his fiance saw him. Evil twin, clone, pod person? You can't just wonder whether its true, you have to wonder about what that means.

Worst. Chat-up routine. EVER.

Honestly, I'm just going to pretend she was just really feeling horny and was fully up for sleeping with him anyway, despite the bull he was peddling. Because, eww. However, I agree that he's quite good at playing a villain. But did we really need to hear Schrodinger's Cat (mis)explained yet again? Surely a lot of people have heard of it?

Yes, Mark is unpleasant and dull. I think I'd have lamped him if he'd spoken to me like that, she hasn't done anything wrong! And frankly, Lloyd so far seems like a much nicer guy, the kids don't seem to be bothered if they hooked up, so I say she should go for it.

The show is still too slow. Too much time spent on montages and repetitive scenes instead of all the interesting possibilities. Five minutes of Mark chasing trick or treaters, five minutes of Demetri and the other guy driving round looking at signs, five minutes of hospital procedures = all just wasted time. It feels like it's being made for the hard of thinking and really needs to be smarter.

Gosh, that Schrodinger's Cat thing bugs me every time, particularly on shows like Big Bang Theory or Numbers, where the characters should really know better.

The Halloween chase scene had me rolling - I got the impression some executive wanted their nephew's band's single to get some airtime, so they wrote a scene with no dialogue and named the episode "Scary Monsters and Super Creeps".

I have to agree with just about every reviewer, this show is a dumb execution of a brilliant concept.

I can't help but feel a comic book by Grant Morrison or Neil Gaiman would've slam dunked this story.

Or, perhaps, the original book, which I have not read but seeing as it's the premise I like and not the execution, maybe I should.

Well, I thought that was far better. What I find interesting is how people deal with the inevitability of their visions, and finally they are beginning to talk about that in a real way.

Minimal relationship blather was also helpful; I grant the novelty of knowing that you will cheat before you've even met the person with whom the cheating will occur, but at its heart it's a story we've all seen play out a million times. Much better for this show to focus on stories that only they can tell. Jett Jackson somehow made me care about his cipher of a character in a very short amount of time, and while I thought it essential (and, oddly, inevitable), that he die, I was moved by it and wished he could have found another way.

They also attempted a mildly interesting structure, which worked and had meaning of its own. The AA sponsor saw his story take some loop-de-loops, and there was barely any Mark. The humor also hit more, mostly because they attempted less of it and stayed away from the broad stuff. The FBI agent in a Police t-shirt made me giggle.

All that, and Leoben as a nihilist civics teacher? Good show, Flash Forward, good show.

Yes! Much, much better. I felt that this episode finally kicked the show into gear - things happened! In fact, my boyfriend was in the room while I was watching it and I'm sure he's been in the room when it's been on at least twice before yet not so much as looked up at the screen, but this one actually made him put his papers aside and even ask a few questions about what was going on, so it's not just me - maybe this will start to build up momentum for the show.

There were still some stretches - the Ghosts Club was pretty silly and while it was a good dramatic moment to have the agent throw himself off the building and show the future could be changed, we didn't know him well enough to know why on earth he would actually do that - it seems excessively sacrificial. Perhaps he was brought up a Jain.

But I feel like the story is finally moving on. And while they should have been making more of the global chaos with the 20 million dead, at least this showed some kind of public reaction.

V. distracting to think of Alex Kingston and her former brother-in-law having to act together. Clearly they're on amicable enough terms to be able to, but still: weird.

[This show should really be in Sci-fi, not Drama, not that it matters]

Certainly, there were probably other options, but I think it really worked dramatically. For one thing, he had no idea how he caused this woman's death - I'd be terrified to drive, and as an FBI agent I think it would be crippling (how could you even draw your gun without thinking about potential misfires or richochets)? Adding to that what he'd just seen of what the visions were doing to people who believed they would die - I think he felt his death could alleviate all of their pain, by proving the future could be changed. (And yes, I know they were behaving as if knowing they were going to die was just the bestest thing ever, but I don't think anyone was buying what they were selling, except maybe Demetri). And while we didn't know him, we know he's generally kind and thoughtful - I wish Alex Kingston had eaten some dirty rice with him. A good person, brought down by crippling fear of a future misdeed.

I'm pretty much at the end of my Flash Forward rope. After finally clicking into gear, we get yet another episode where very little happens and everyone behaves bizarrely. Most aggravatingly, the show seems to be embracing the muddiest of thinking regarding fate and the visions. Al ending his life proved, without a doubt, that the visions are not set in stone. They cannot be, because he had a vision and Alex Kingston can vouch for his appearance in the future. Beardy's daughter being alive has nothing to do with the future - she was already alive, she didn't spring into existence because he saw her. All that changed was that he believed she was alive. Why characters like Mark cannot understand the distinction between future actions and current realities is beyond me. I wouldn't mind so much if the show didn't seem to be speaking through Mark.

Then there's the poker game...sigh. I did recognize a bit player from Alias, which was fun, but otherwise...sigh. Why either man would want to engage in such a game is beyond me - AutisticKid'sFather (I seriously don't know the names of anyone on this show) has serious moral issues - he believes he and his friends/coworkers/collaborators have killed 20 million...and he's going to let a poker game decide whether or not he does what he believes to be right? Charlie's motivations are even vaguer - there was nothing in his vision that we saw, anyway, that would lead him to believe that he won, so what was all that nattering on about fate?

My guess is I'm about two episodes away from canceling the season pass. I have to say, I'm really bummed about that. I wasn't necessarily expecting the next Lost - trying to make such comparisons is sort of silly. But I was hoping for something more engaging and rambunctious than this.

I don't know that I'd call it a brilliant concept - but definitely an intriguing one. I totally agree about how this show is playing out - do not like. The musical interludes are nutty and the camera work drove me batty really quick.

I just watched episodes 5-9 all together (missed the first four), maybe that was a better way to watch it than week by week because I didn't find it moving too slowly.

Here's a question do we know Demitri's fiance actually saw him in her dream or did she just assume he was there since she was getting married?

My BF and I have discussed that - we are fairly certain she doesn't see him specifically, but sees her wedding and assumes that means he is there. Since the idea that she could lose her fiance in March and then find a new man and have a wedding by April seems unlikely, I think her assumption is fair and it is one of the more interesting questions the show has posed - is it possible they did not all see the same future?

My theory, and I'm an episode behind you, is that Demetri's reported death has been faked for some FBI reason, but his fiancee is in on it and thus expecting to see him at the wedding. However, as he's on his way to the ceremony, just seconds before she emerges, something happens and he's killed, thus no flash.

What? No Wedding Themed funeral theories?

I had a theory that Zoe, crazy with grief, decided to go ahead with the wedding anyway, much to the gruesome discomfort of her family and friends. Does that count?

Uh, those are both just strange.

Or, she could just be lying for some reason.

DOUBLE-AGENT!

This might be without merit, but I have this feeling that any vision we actually see is true. Someone could lie about what they saw (like Courtney B. Vance being in a meeting), but the filmed contents of the vision will be accurate (he was actually on the toilet). T

Of course, we have no way of knowing anyone's thoughts during their visions, but I do think that Zoe legitimately saw herself on a beach, in wedding gear.

Yeah, could be - my hypothetical that she was lying was more on the idea that she was marrying someone else, having always been with them and just pretending to be with Demetri for some nefarious purpose. But that seems too convoluted a prospect for the amount of screen time she's getting.

No, wait - it's a posthumous wedding!

Ripped from the headlines! I think I'm done with this show. I find I can't justify the credits it costs to download the HD version and I don't really want to watch it when I do DL it. Maybe one more episode, I guess.

Ugh, this one was kind of unbearable, but I'm curious about some aspects of the teaser for next week. There's just so much dumb. If you yell at an NSA analyst loudly enough, they can release national security info to you. If someone texts your wife some incriminating information, the first person you should suspect is your supportive AA sponsor, and not the boss who was furious at you for the same. If you know you will survive your cancer for at least six months when death is imminent, that is evidence that you should refuse potentially life-saving treatment. All of the Japan stuff. The ring enhancement. Mark not getting punched in the face repeatedly. So much dumb.

On the bright side, my BF and I have a new theory: the masked assassins in Mark's flash forward are not connected to the overall plot at all, but are instead just people who've met him before.

Or seen him on TV?

I thought this one was pretty good. Although it's a bit cheesy that Bryce was thinking of suicide because he had a terminal illness, I really liked the new Japanese character and the whole set-up there. There was a lot less Benford (although he certainly was being an arse). However two blindingly unbelievable coincidences - the woman recognising the T-shirt from the restaurant from the drawing and then the NSA identifying the background noise that could only possibly have been heard in one very specific place - come the fuck on. I can suspend a lot of disbelief but that's just laughable.

I'll give you the T-Shirt, but the audio analysis is quite possible. Less so, enhancing the ring but not the dudes face. There's a long history of impossible photo enhancements in TV and movies. Whereas, an iconic and singular open air light/music show is something I can believe. It's not like Hong Kong just plays Beethoven's Fifth, it's a custom orchestral piece that when combined with ambient city sounds would point to a city, not necessarily a square block.

Yeah, but ... with such a short piece of music (and enhanced from background noise, at that) to test, could they really have identified it so certainly? From what, the big library of every piece of music ever? And anyway what really bothers me is the incredible convenience that the call's background noise wasn't the radio playing an international hit or just traffic noise, it was something so unique and specific to a certain place. I wish they'd just said that they traced the phone signal through the satellite or something and it led to Hong Kong.

One thing I noticed - Bryce's FF was the first one, I think, where the character in the FF seemed to expect what was about to happen. That could be a misinterpretation - perhaps he made contact with her first and so there's was not a chance meeting (even without the FF), but it seemed like the both knew what was about to happen. I'm not sure if that is a step in the right direction or just a continuity error. Or if this whole show is a continuity error.

I can buy all of the tech, more or less - it's goofy, but it's a trope with shows like these. It's more what Pan says - the specificity of it all. God forbid they run into a lead that can't be resolved by zooming and enhancing, or a criminal organization smart enough not to wear a unique symbol somewhere on their person.

Isn't that like rule #3 of any government-y/spy show these days? All the agents identify themselves and their origin withing mere minutes and are rock stars of their sub-world of intrigue?

There was a clever comic called Sleeper that followed villains as they went about their nefarious business. During downtime, they'd play a game called Origin where they told the 'fictional' story of their origins. Think a less musical Dr Horrible. It was a neat convention of villains adopting the cliche of their own villainy.

Oh, and FF sucks. That is all.

In case anyone didn't already read it yesterday - FF has been suspended.

Hmm. I can't say I greatly mind but I do hope that they are able to wrap up the story in some way!

Having now seen the last episode, I can say now that I will be sorry if they don't bring it back, because that was really good - the story fair moved on and there were several intriguing elements - this is what it should have been all along. I hope that they're able to fix the show and bring it back, that this isn't just a preliminary to cancellation.

Fiennes is a weak link in the cast but at least now he has another plotline other than a) drinking b) jealous of wife.

Well. Returning in March. Cause nothing helps out an ailing show like a four month hiatus.

That, while not good, really, did do a few things sort of well - the explanation for Zoe's vision made sense, didn't contradict what we'd already seen, and was actually sort of heartbreaking. And while pretty much everything involving Lloyd and Charlie was silly as all heck, I did like Charlie's bit about how scientists really want immortality and that leading the Feds back to D (Deacon?)

I have fewer good things to say about Mark and Demetri's plotline - while it was surprising that Mark ends up shooting Demetri, everything else he did came off as far too man on the edge. All of the talk about how he has nothing to lose...am I a mental patient or does he not have a wife and child? The whole crazed vigilante thing did not work, although I liked Demetri's very sensible reaction to it ("What are we doing" indeed). Joseph Fiennes is just not a convincing badass. The line about action movie cliches was way, way too meta for this show. Throughout the whole scene with the Persian restaurant owner I was wishing Sayid was there, to show him how it's done. Also, this is the second time a character has gone to Asia and found (well, almost found) a woman based on her eating at a particular restaurant a lot.

Previews do promise some entertaining guest stars, so hopefully the show improves in the new year.

Huh - you're right! That is silly, especially within two weeks.

We didn't get previews here, who are the guest stars?

Mark's actions didn't really make sense. It seemed like an easy solution to me. Go home, turn in your gun/have it destroyed, quit your job and go hide out in some remote country for the next 6 months.

I wonder if the break until March 2010 was planned or not. I imagine if it was not planned (which I am gathering it wasn't) this is going to mess up the time line since they've flashed forward to March 2010.