That's not the one I saw Silas. The one I saw had Leo and Donna talking about a secretary or something. I only caught the end of it as I wasn't looking at the screen at the time, it took a while for me to realise what it was: 'Hang on, that voice sounds familiar, it's Leo! Oh my god a WW ad! Yay!'. Yeah, so I'm easily pleased. So what?

All you enquiring about S3 on E4? Get out! We have no sympathy for you here. At least you've seen S2. Bitter? Moi? Never. I am joking by the way, I don't want to seem rude. Not joking about the bitterness though. Hell no.

Cailino: If they get RL to star in it, I think it's a damn good idea! Seriously though, it depends on the quality of the writing. I think it would be a good way to get people more interested in politics though, the turnout for the last election was a bit pathetic and of course 'decisions are made by those who turn up'.

Just cruising by ... But, er, didn't we already have our version?  House of Cards with Iain Richardson (remember - you might say that but I couldn't possibly comment?).  Then of course there was Yes Minister, although that was a comedy.  However, if we're casting: Neil Pearson for PM.  John Hannah as Alasdair Campbell.  Rupert Everett as Peter Mandelson.  Mr Bean as Stephen Byers.

I don't think you could really compare House of Cards. I mean the West Wing shows a really positive view of politics, you know - you're on their side. The House of Cards showed the ugly side. I think they want to show something that would get people interested, even if it would be very unrealistic.

Yeah ... but I think people in Britain would just laugh if our government were presented as idealistically as in TWW.  I mean, I know I would, and I think in general we have a more cynical media view of politicians.  But then I'm not a big TWW viewer, so maybe those of you who are would disagree?

No, I agree with you. I just can't see it working. I don't associate the West Wing with the present president in the US at all, they are so different. But I just can't imagine a British show doing the same thing without seeing Blair (presuming it's focussed on the parliament/prime minister) and others, and not believing in it at all.

Actually, I just thought of another political drama - anybody remember A Very British Coup?  The premise was that a quite left-wing PM surprisingly got elected, due to a number of accidents and scandals elsewhere, and then he had to battle against various plots to try to get through his radical plans.  It was written so that you sympathised with him - the guy who played him was a fantastic Irish actor whose name I've forgotten.  Anyway, it ended up that MI5 or somebody had him assassinated.  Interestingly, it was written by Chris Mullin, who went on to be a New Labour minister, clearly having changed somewhat!

The release of the Region 2 DVDs has been moved back to April 15th.

This gives me more time to come up with a Sampo Codefree DVD player, but I hate the delay.

Thanks for posting that neurosturgeon. I wonder why. It's a bit of a pain, I don't want to have to wait!

I saw another advert last night after friends on C4. Sam was looking rather nice in it. Donna was doing her 'Guess that makes me the deputy deputy CoS' line. I'm almost impressed at C4 for advertising it this time round, but I seem to remember that they advertised quite a bit at the beginning of S1, but then it slowed down after a few episodes as the time slot got later and later and later...

I've already seen the 2nd series of TWW, which my friend taped off E4 for me.  But, my God is it worth watching again and again.  I might actually tape the entire series and keep it.  It says something about the calibre of the series that I can 't wait for a repeat showing of the series.

NOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

That is all.

But when I checked Amazon - they still had the March 25th release date listed.  So who knows for sure.

Ditto with play.com. But generally that R2 dvd site is pretty much on the money, and if it's just been decided, I wouldn't be surprised if the vendor sites just haven't updated their info yet. Sucks.

What about video? I could buy the dvd, but a whole series?  Video might be cheaper.

I just checked on Blackstar and they have the release date as 25th March.

The cost for the videos is £22.99 on Blackstar, quite a bit cheaper than the DVD.

So, who noticed the advert in the middle of ER last night? It's almost like they're making an effort. They did this last series though, advertised it at first, ignored it for months, then advertised the last episode to try to get more people to sign up for E4.

When does it start?  I can't see anything in the listings for next week.

Joining into the fun.  The trailer I saw was And I quite liked it too.  (Quite liked is an understatement.
I sort of work in (and yes given my Net addiction sort of works covers it) a similar environment (if on a much less grander scale) so I'm looking forward to it hugely this time around.  Not that I didn't love it to bits first time around.  And the cliffhanger!?  I read (last autumn) that Channel 4 were showing the hop out o'kin (terrorism) episode before going into Season 2.  Does anyone know if this still applies?  And a hard date would be good, although after the drought, troiler droplets will be good.

Hey welshstar! Good to see you.
They should show the cliffhanger one, otherwise it won't make much sense for new viewers. However, just because it would make sense won't be a reason for C4 to do it, probably more of a reason not to do it! I'm loving the adverts, but they haven't commited themselves to a date yet, it's all 'coming soon', which is annoyingly ambiguous.

I really hope they don't show the terroism eppy before the season 2 opener. Partly because it'll torture anyone who hasn't seen season 2 at ALL yet (I was only rescued from my Channel 4 nightmare by a friend with tapes) and also, because that episode is probably the worst one yet. (IMO).

I hope they don't show I&I before the start of the second series, it's pretty crappy and will undo all the good works I have done trying to convince people to watch the show.

Nothing so far as I can see on the Channel 4 website.
ETA I've seen more trailers, and I'm rather excited, although they've been a bit Sam-heavy.

March 24th people!

There's an article about BW in today's Sunday Times Culture section.

And Yay! One week to go. Does anyone know if they'll be showing WKoaDHIB first? Because if they're trying to attract new viewers, which you would think they are from the frequency of the ads, it's not going to make much sense to them jumping straight in to the first ep.

What time though?  Not the same as 24, I hope!

Edited, because I found out that it's at 9pm, finishing just before 24.  Hey, neat two hours of quality US drama!  Someone planned that well.

Edited because I just saw Pandrea's edit. Word to what she said.

Phew! Just got back from holiday and I heard a nasty rumour that S2 had started airing already, which would have been great for you lot but would have meant I'd missed the cracking season opener. Must stock up on blank videos, with this advent of yet more must-see tv.

Here's hoping that the 9pm time slot lasts more than 3 weeks and they don't do what they did with s1 and move it around every week till people stop watching it altogether.

Smirk.  S4C sound as if they'll stick to last year's Monday night at 10.35/10.40.  And I don't think it's going to be the terruh eppy that they start with because S4C have been trailing the shooting cliffhanger.

Okay, I'm always confused by British televsion (I know pay television has already shown Season 2 but not free television).  So if you're talking about free television just now starting with Season 2 then it would not make sense for them to show Issac and Ishmael (the terruh eppy) since that episode is actually the Season 3 opener.

You'll have to wait until next year to see the brilliance that was Issac and Ishmael [/end sarcasm]  

On a happier note, I personally think In the Shadow of Two Gunmen (Parts I&II) are the best West Wing episodes ever.

Yeah, pretty good.  Wish I'd seen Part 1 though.  And it seemed to stop rather abruptly; I didn't think the end was coming at that point.  Who on earth was that weird raddled woman Toby was talking to in that bar?  

Also, could someone tell me briefly what happened to Mandy?  When does she leave?  I haven't seen all of the first season.

Every time the Vice President comes on I laugh, because he looks exactly like Shakin' Stevens.

Pandrea:  You have only seen Part I.  Part I ends with POTUS and Leo standing at the window with POTUS saying "Look at what we've done." or something like that.

As for what happens to Mandy:  

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

We never find out.  Sorkin never says.  Apparently, he did promise at one point to explain her disappearance but, because he could never think of a reason he liked, he kept putting it off and then finally he said he realized he had waited too long.  So we will never know.  Current theory over at the TWoP Boards:  She's stuck in China trying to find some Panda Bears for the National Zoo.

Oh, I see!  Thank you, that makes more sense.  Since I didn't see the last one of last series, I assumed that had been part one.

Hmm, that Mandy thing

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

strikes me as pretty crap.  How hard would it have been to stick in a line about 'Can you believe Mandy went and took that job ...' and then Josh could have come in the room and everyone hushes up because they know it annoys him to hear it discussed or whatever.  Bad Sorkin!  I say she's gone off to Nashville to become a country and western star, she's got the perm for it.

Look, it's Vice President Hoynes!

The thing about Mandy

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

that irks the most is that "In the Shadow of Two Gunmen" happens immediately after "What Kind of Day It Has Been" and Mandy is featured throughout that episode coaching the President on his speech.  So, it really boggles the mind that they didn't reference her leaving the administration in "The Mid-Terms" at the very least.

Or that

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

they didn't call her when Josh got shot.  Although so far they don't seem to have called his family either.

Gah.

Actually, I don't know if this needs to be spoiler-hidden, it has been on here, it's just that I missed it.

Actually, over at TWoP, we've got an equivalent to the "Buffy gets a passport" scene and it's "POTUS gets a visit in the hospital".  It came about when everyone was complaining about "Why didn't so and so visit Josh? ...or POTUS?"  It was decided that it would take up too much air time and besides the fact, it would be incredible boring to list everyone who would have been at the hospital so we are to assume it happened even though they didn't show it.  Josh's mother would have been one of those people.  

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

However, to not at least reference Mandy, when she was with the entire staff literally hours before, makes no sense.  It's like the Cunningham's oldest son.  One season he was there, the next he wasn't and everyone just pretended he never existed.

Aw, that was a nice episode.  I like how the show twists what you think is going to be a sappy, 'TV show' moment into something else sometimes.  Like Sam, who in Ally McBeal or something would have been genuinely, oh-so-sincerely trying to convince the evil ship-buyers to buy the good ships, but then his boss calls him on it and you see that actually, he is kind of trying to get fired.

I'm not sure if I believe that a bunch of the White House senior staff would be sitting around a hospital waiting for their colleague to get well instead of having urgent, political-type, oh-say-running the country-type stuff to do.  

Donna's backstory?  A mighty Hmmmm.

Dear GOD. I just watched Sunday's episode ('Noel') last night and thought it was the lamest West Wing I've seen.  I hope this is not a sign of things to come - it seemed so crappy compared to the usual standard.  At least the music was nice, I suppose.

Did you really not like "Noel", Pandrea?  I thought it was a great episode.  It's the episode for which Brad Whitford received his Emmy.

Warning, rant incoming:
The Emmy, really?  Well, I do think he’s excellent, generally,
and I wouldn’t necessarily fault him even in this episode. But I really, really disliked everything about the script.

I think it’s good that they showed some fallout from Josh getting shot previously, though I think perhaps some signs of it between the start of the series and now might have been an idea (at least, I didn’t see them).  But words can’t express how much I DON’T buy how it all came out.

That thing with music reminding him of sirens?  For all I know, a standard reaction among the traumatised in real life, but in the show?  Cheap way to work in Yo Yo Ma, cheap dramatic way round the problem of how to bring Josh’s reactions into focus.

Also, I’m not a fan of Adam Arkin - he bugs me and so did his character. I understand that he had to be abrasive to get some reaction out of Josh, as a nicey-nice interviewer would just have got the brush off.  But I just fundamentally disagree with that idea (Freudian?) that if you can articulate something once then all your problems are solved.  Okay, they made a nod to saying he’d have to have more therapy, but I’m willing to bet that’s not something that remains as a major part of the story, so in the context of the show, he IS  cured.  Just because he admitted he broke the window ...

I get that Josh shouldn’t be shouting at his boss - it’s generally not a good idea.  But that idea that the President is somehow not a normal man, that he deserves special regal treatment, I don’t get.  Especially when they make a point of saying ‘oh my god, not in the Oval Office of all places!’ when for me Oval Office = where Clinton played Hide The Cigar with Monica.

And in addition, why on earth was Toby endeavouring to be the most Christmassy of all, when just last week he was standing up for the rights of non-Christians to not participate in stuff ... plus that little sideplot with the woman finding her painting in the White House had nothing to do with anything and WHY would the White House have an English guy in charge of tours?  Oh wait, it was just so they could introduce an oh-so-funny stereotype of the snobbish English butler type.

Bah.  Sorry for the rant, but I was watching this with someone who doesn’t usually watch the show and felt quite embarrassed, I had to explain ‘it’s not usually like this!’  Especially during that corny, corny story from Leo - I know it was meant to be touching, but eek ...  Just tell me this isn't a typical episode from what's to come for the rest of this series ... see, I've heard people say the second series wasn't as good as the first but up to now I haven't felt that.

Well, this is coming from someone who liked "Noel" but I thought the second season was almost as good as the first season.  S3, whole 'nother story.  Now, this is only my opinion, but the next two episodes are good but once you hit "Bartlet's Third State of the Union" you're home free because Season 2 ends very strongly.

Don't despair, Pandrea; I loved Noel, but I concur with mj, Season 2 has very few low spots from here! I won't say more because I don't want to spoil anything for you. Just have faith - the last 5 episodes are particularly gutsy.

Good good good!  The trailer for next week did seem to be more politics-oriented, phew!

Okay, this is me being very anal. Someone with more knowledge please tell me if I've spotted a blooper (a Sorkinism?).

S1 Mandatory Minimums: Staffers of various politicians described as "Dalton, Dawson, Foxworthy, Greer, Morgenthau, Stackhouse and Sugarbaker" are called in and Leo tells them that he knows they all have family members with drug problems.

S2 The Stackhouse Filibuster: Everyone is surprised to find that Senator Stackhouse has an autistic grandchild. Is it the same guy? Wouldn't they kind of know that if they know enough about him to know the drug thing? (Incidentally I really liked this episode, which has just been on here, but the ending of it was irritating: oh, someone we know has a connection to autism, therefore it's right that we should spend millions of dollars on it after all. If he had won them over by a touching speech or something I could buy it more, but just finding out the fact of it?)

Okay, while I'm on the subject, I have a couple of other gaffes to point out. Supposedly it's the Daily Mirror who exposes Sam's friendship with the ghastly Laurie. Never happen. A British tabloid would have no interest in a non-elected advisor to the President. I don't even think the Gary Condit case has made the tabs over here and that's much more sensational. Also, there's a reference in What Kind Of Day Has It Been to the Prez watching softball because it's that or Scotland playing cricket. No one in Scotland plays cricket and there's no national team (or if there is, it must be a wee amateur one and it wouldn't even be transmitted on British telly).

Incidentally, I have been really enjoying this season - Noel was clearly a one-off. And I was so right that Josh has never mentioned being shot since. The Veep is so sinister. Sinister Shakin Stevens guy.

Okay, must just say that (Two Cathedrals) was brilliant. What's the other cathedral though?

There are two schools of thought here. One is that the other cathedral is Bartlet's school cathedral, where he is first introduced to Mrs. Landingham and the reference to the cigarette being found is made. The second is that it is metaphorical and that the second cathedral is the White House and Bartlet's using politics for a higher purpose and as a way to do good. You choose.

Aw crap, completely forgot it was on last night. Arse. Can't remeber what the second cathedral was. The school maybe? Book-ending his releationship with Mrs Landingham?

Edited because mj's clearly all over this question and actually knows what she's talking about.

Oh! Those are good suggestions, mj (forgot there was a church (cathedral?) at his school), I like both ideas. I love the idea that he had this long relationship with Mrs L, which while I'd never thought about it before (I assumed she was the resident White House secretary every Pres would have, I always forget that in the US civil service jobs are political appointments) makes perfect sense. She was a good actress, too, young Mrs L.

TM, I still have it on tape if you want.

Thanks Pan. I might still have it on tape myself from when it was on E4 last year. I'll have a root about tonight. It would certainly be worth watching it before season 3 kicks off.

Just dropping in to say that, thanks to an E4-taping chum, I am still watching this avidly (though we missed the first two eps). I've heard a lot about the quality of the show going downhill in this series, but so far I've not noticed that and am still enjoying it greatly. Just seen 'The Women of Qumar' and lost in admiration for Allison Janney's and Richard Schiff's performances. Damn, that's good acting.

Horray! Someone else watching! I would have been that E4-taping chum if you'd asked! I have eps 1 & 2 if you want them, by the way.

I'm really enjoying it. I like the interaction with the new people and the whole MS investigation is starting to take off. I enjoyed last week's ep with Josh "Special J" and his new friend although I'm not sure I want them to pair him off with her - He and Donna have such a Mulder and Scully thing going on, they shouldn't mess with it.

Any one else out there watching?

Well, I'm watching, if anyone else is out there ...

Despite heavy anticipation for "The Women of Qumar", I really didn't like it; I'm pretty much a card-carrying feminist and I thought the whole episode was heavy-handed and (particularly on prostitution) pretty much missed the point of a lot of recent feminist debate. But Alison Janney and Richard Schiff ... brilliant. And I would love to work for that women's NGO (though not as much as I'd like to work for President Bartlet).

And my faith in the writing team was renewed in last week's episode, the name of which temporarily escapes me. Not a dry eye in the house. *sniff* So I'm very much looking forward to E4 tomorrow night.