Those last minutes killed me.  The pain in Willow's voice, oh  my god, it made me shake.  

On Spike, I'm a B/S shipper but damn if I'm not teetering on the edge.  I'm *this close* to jumping ship completely.  There are only a few reasons why I'm not already man overboard:

1. I really think that Spike though this was another Say No, Act Yes moment, and so he persisted.  It's not right, and I'm not blaming Buffy, but considering what he's gotten while using this approach I understand why saying no didn't stop him.

2.  The look after he gets shoved off.  He realizes what he was doing, is upset about it.

3.  In his crypt, he is upset.  The images that flash through his head, the look on his face while he's seeing them, breaking the cup, and the first thougth that comes out of his mouth is "Why did I do that?"  I think this is guilt from the Spikester.  

I'd like to see where they take this and what he does in response to it before making any judgements.  He complains that he can neither be a monster, nor a man, which means that he's moving to become one or the other.  Turning him into a monster would be Angel part deux, so I'm holding out hope over here in Egypt.

My feelings on Xander were a reversal of the last episode.  Despised him at first, felt better about him at the end.  He at least acknowledged that he was acting like an ass and that it really isn't Spuffy sex per se that's upsetting him, but the lack of trust involved.  I liked that.  Good to see Xander and Buffy talking about their issues for once.  

Poor Tara.  *sniff* I miss her already.  She doesn't get the advantage of being the title character, and therefore being guaranteed another life.

Bring on evil Willow.  This was what I was preparing for all season long!

Okay.  Just once, for old times' sake, and then I'll be good and behave appropriately.

Hey, didja see that Spike there?  With the not-a-nice-guyness?  WHEE!

(Though now that I see SNeaker's idea I like that better.  Oh well.)

We certainly don't have it confirmed that Tara's dead, though she may be.  I will have to admit that my completely unspoiled thoughts during the credits were the following:

1)  Hey, she's in the credits!  Cool!
2)  Well then, she must not be going to die.  
3)  Or possibly Joss put her in the credits for one episode just to kill her...

I actually thought Dawn was adorable with the bouncing.  Also, Nick Brendon?  This is the best job he's done in *years*.  It's so nice to see that he really can do this when he's given something to work with.

Glad Jonathan got some sort of grip on himself, thought whether he suddenly grabbed onto a principle or just didn't want to see Buffy killed I'm not sure.

My reaction to Spike's parting words:  "Yeah, blah blah blah neck chalice blah blah.  I'll believe it when I see it, buster."  <pause>  "You know, it's really stupid for a vampire to ride a motorcycle."

Whoa, I'm afraid to say anything because I think I liked this episode less than SNeaker.  Don't mean to drag down the good feelings here.

Yes, I loved the Xander-ness of it.  And I really appreciated the scene at the end, the conversation between Xander and Buffy.  It was nice to see them acknowledging the dynamics of the core scooby relationships.  I loved the little bit of comic relief Anya and the minor Dawn scene- that's the exact amount of those two that we should be getting.  I even liked the rape scene, although I love SNeaker's rewrite a thousand times more.  And I liked Jonathon saving the day and Andrew being foiled in his escape.  And for reasons that I won't even try to explain or analyze, Warren's "What's the matter baby, you never fight a real man before?" made me laugh longer than anything else on the show in about three years.

I didn't like how talky the episode seemed to me.  There was so much talk and not enough action.  The action scenes were good and memorable, but were dragged down by the staticness of the talk.  And as shocked as I was by the ending, I thought it was a pretty lame way for this show to handle a death.  Where's the metaphor there?  And did every Willow/Tara scene have to be so sunshiney and every Tara close-up have to be so glowy?  Would her loss have been less shocking or devastating to Willow (and most of the audience) if they'd been less over the top in their lurrve?  

I am excited to see what happens next and I am shocked and sorry about Tara.  And Ginni.  Poor Ginni.

Hey. I actually liked this, and that was even before the end. Can I just say that this show is exhausting me? One week it sucks beyond all salvation, and the next week it’s good. Stop the Buffy, I want to get off.

When you’ve got a promo like last week’s (intone ominously, “Everything will change. Nothing you thought is true.”) in your mind, you think up all kinds of crazy things as you’re watching the episode. I variously thought that Xander was going to die, that Spike was only trying to rape Buffy because he was possessed by Warren, that Spike was going to stake himself, that Tara was not really Tara but Amy spelled to look like Tara so she could weasel her way into Willow’s… well, Willow.

Honestly, that bathroom attempted rape was a little too abrupt a character turn with Spike. And why was he hissing at the end there? I dunno… I suppose Buffy and he have played fast and loose with the line of consent and the line of S&M for so long that he finally snapped. And that is the sort of thing you worry about when a woman spends six months screaming “no” and then with her body saying “yes.” But it still doesn’t jibe with Spike.

Dude, Buffy’s dead! Again! It’s a Trifecta!

Yeah, right. Anyway, I really loved all the interaction between Buffy and Xander. Oh friendship, how I’ve missed you. I loved that the Buffy knowledge hurt him more than the Anya knowledge, because that’s true to the characters; I’d have thought the writers had forgotten it. I loved how solicitous and worried he suddenly was when he found her in the bathroom; he didn’t go off all vengeful when she made clear that that wasn’t what she wanted.

And Buffy was dressed so prettily for most of the episode… I liked her hair when she was wearing that little cream top with the flowers. And then Willow looked gorgeous and was dressed appealingly for the whole episode… there in the bed with Tara, she actually looked like the Willow of old. I love her hair the old Season Three way. And Buffy’s hair is growing out to optimal Season Four length. Good hair, is what I’m trying to say.

Did they put Amber Benson finally into the regular credits, to throw off suspicion? In deference to the feelings of Tara lovers (see, I thought of SNeaker's ding dong line, but I'm too nice), I’ll just say that I’m relieved I don’t need to hear any more Willow and Tara love patter. And I’ll say again what I said to Nalian last week: It is a far, far worser thing to have your favorite character live on so the writers can twist and taint and ruin him than it is to have her die a satisfyingly tragic death after much love and gauzy camera lensing… then you get to turn off the TV and have a good wonderful-feeling cry. Nothing so satisfying as the telegenic noble death.

Small voice: Um, that being said, is Ginni spoiled? Perhaps someone ought to hint at that, gently?

She's not.  It's a killer.

Hmm.  Off the bat, I should say that I was watching my tape of this during commercial breaks on Gilmore and Smallville.  So maybe I missed some, like, overall goodness.  I mean, it was definitely a step up from what we've been getting, sure.  Maybe I need to rewatch the Xander stuff again.  It just all felt rather flat to me.  The end was pretty effective, I guess.  And, um, Dawn didn't bug me that much.  I don't know.  Maybe the characters are too far gone for me.

Oh!  I almost forgot.  There was a moment when Lonesome!Xander was walking down the long, lonely street, when I totally thought he was hot again.  A whole moment, guys.  It was pretty special.

Ulp. So basically we have to twiddle our fingers for a day and a half and wait for the scream? I bet I hear it all the way from Scotland. Oh, well... I guess it's better to have an honest moment, even if it's painful.

AUGH!

Spoiled!  Again!  Is it actually all that unreasonable for me to expect something marked "Seeing Red Spoilers" to only actually contain spoilers for "Seeing Red"?  For the love of God, people!

Well, at least it's minor.  There's some follow-on that was slightly less minor, but I don't know whether it was speculation or spoiler, so I'm going to assume speculation.

Still.  AUGH!

I didn't think it was an about-turn on Spike, really.  I mean, yes, it was yet another mood swing for him and he's been written inconsistently for years.  But I think it's entirely in character for him to think Buffy just needs a good screwing, it'll be good for her, she'll like it, and then everything'll be fine again.  And as ejg pointed out, Buffy has spent an awful lot of time saying no and meaning yes.  NOT NOT NOT saying this excuses Spike's behavior, but for someone whose concept of other people's boundaries is already fairly nonexistent I'm not surprised he didn't pick up on the genuineness of Buffy's resistance.  We already knew he was not a man who took no for an answer.

Hee, kmm. You're like the stoner who's upset that someone laced her pot with PCP. What, are we supposed to regulate the stuff? :-)

I'm glad that Willow is going to go all magickkkkkkky as a result of Tara's death, and not beforehand so as to cause it (that's the one I was expecting). Another dose of guilt would be too freakin' much to expect us to take. And thank god Buffy didn't get raped... for a minute there, I was like, "Oh bloody hell, it's going to be another two years of grief."

I waited!  I read the thread *after* I'd seen "Seeing Red."  So that should've been okay!

Look, I'm clinging to my virginity by a thread here.  I'm going to need to do one of those regain-virginity ceremonies any moment.

Hee!  Like Richard Moll on Night Court.

See, I think Spike is so inconsistent that we could find out tomorrow that he's enrolled in the McDonald's University to be a fry cook, and I wouldn't bat an eye.  What bugged me about that scene was what has been pointed out; that even injured Buffy should have been able to push Spike off of her at any time.  And in the same episode we got that cool little jump over the spinning blades that reminded me, "Hey, this girl's got super powers!"

Well, I chalk it up to a combination of things: she was injured, she was pressed down on the floor in a position that didn't offer any leverage, and, most importantly, she was startled and caught off-guard by the whole thing. After a few seconds, she recollected herself and tossed him into the far wall.

I was totally spoiled for this episode, and very nearly switched off the computer so I wouldn't have to see the end.
Tara! NO!

Bwah!  I still don't actually know what he said in that scene and I saw it twice.

I just loved how for awhile there all the Core Scoobies started to look like themselves again.  Willow in the teaser in the red sleeved shirt?  Abso-fucking-lutely adorable!  Too bad it had to end so damn soon.

And I still think that they shoulda killed Spike instead.  Raise your hand if you agree.

Poor Tara.  Poor Will.  My poor girls.  ::sob::

That shirt was really big on her.  I've decided it's Xander's.

Hee SNeak, you crack me up thinking things through that much.  But that makes the scene even sweeter to me for some reason.

Lalalala, I can't read you!


I hate hockey. I love the Goalies, and I don't mean to be a traitor to Hockeytown, but this Red Wings playoff game shit has got to stop. I'll see you on Sunday at around 6:00 PM. Grrr.

(I don't really hate hockey. I'm just pissed off because I didn't know about it until 7:55 last night.)

I'd be with you, SNeaker, except that Xander never wore a shirt that good-looking. Although maybe now that Anya's demony and Tara's gone to her final reward, the way is clear for Willow and Xander to finally come together again.

Hey, I'm with you on the hockey angst...Is it bad for me to be happy the Bruins lost in Six games, so that Game Seven wouldn't be preempting last weeks Buffy?

One note of consolation for Ginni...at least Scully will be there to watch with her and console her. She has NO idea...poor G. I can't wait to get her reaction...

God, we're the definition of schadenfreude.


I dunno.  I got a little B/X vibe, myself, but then I've seen that before when it wasn't there.

I got that vibe too, but I'm hoping it doesn't come to pass. It wouldn't make sense... I think Xander will always have some romantic love for her, no matter how latent. But Buffy never loved him that way; it's the essence of the thing.

"Look, I'm clinging to my virginity by a thread here.  "

Must.Avoid.Snarky.Comment...

And yes, we are all waiting for Ginni's reaction like a bunch of people watching Evil Kneivel jump the Grand Canyon. Schadenfreude-amundo.

Well, I like to think I'm awaiting it with sadness and sympathy. But, yeah, there's probably some of that big German word mixed in.

I'm sad and sympathetic. If it was Xander there would be much renting of the cloth and wearing of the ashes. But I know that people would be watching for my reaction knowing that I love Xander.

Like you when we knew Riley was coming back, we were all aflutter waiting for your happy reaction. Only this reaction isn't going to be so happy.

Ah... do you actually remember me after it aired? I'm thinking Ginni will be much happier.

In retrospect, I think I would have been much better off if someone had spoiled me re Riley's demonic bride. Of course, beforehand, I'd have bitten off the hand of anyone who tried.

From Ginni in the "when should we be allowed to talk about new eps" poll thread:  



Oh, the humanity.  I am really feeling for her.  At least I had advance warning Giles was leaving.

mjforty, my stomach *sunk* when I read Ginni's comment.

Is someone going to call her after the episode has finished?  Do we think she will be capable of human thought and speech?

Poor poor Ginni.

Ouch. Oh, man. Poor baby. She's going to really hurt.

I can't imagine how I'd feel if Xander... gah. Not thinking about it.

Oh man, I saw that too and my eyes just started tearing.  See it really is true- we don't cry for those who died, we cry for the ones left behind.

Poor Ginni!  Thank G-d for scully.

I've not seen the episode, 7 hours to go, but I still found this article/review really interesting.

See, I've been hoping for this all year.  I think it would be perfectly natural for Buffy and Xander to get together.  Obviously, Xander's ready for it.  And I think Buffy is too.  We can safely say that she's over the bad boy thing now, can't we?  Now that she's really ready for a new type, Xander makes sense.  He's the only boy she knows who truly accepts and isn't threatened by her super powers and who appreciates her for her non-super powers as well.  I can believe that her feelings could grow romantic towards him.  I also would be happy (just not as happy) if they remained great friends.


Poor Ginni.  All that innocent enthusiasm.  It breaks my heart.

Heh.  Ginni's gonna be kinda surprised when she sees her name 22 times when she opens this thread in...3 hours, I think, by my count.

Hi Ginni!  We love you!  *hugs*

We do.  We really do.  And hey, you never have to worry about Tara becoming a Pod Tara now!

Must...resist..snarky..comment

Love you Ginni!

Scully. And she's not really up to the task apparently. Or my talking down needs more than any one person can handle.

I think it's probably the latter. Though the Pandrea phonecall that consisted of SQUEALING down the phone also helped.

HOLY SHIT!!! HOLY SODDING BUGGER IT ALL TO HELL SHITE!!!

Okay  - pretending to watch Angel and the posts before I rewatch and post properly.

GAH!

Not up to the task?? Fuck that shit. I was just barely able to dodge the flailing arms and keep my ears from bleeding!

Also? Bloody fucking HELL!!

Didn't see a whole lot of that shit coming..

So here's betting all the vamps are gonna feel like idiots now for not thinking of the gun thing beforehand.

Except Darla.  She was an innovator.

Sigh.  It's true, you know.  The real thing to be afraid of in Sunnydale isn't vampires.  It's being blonder than Buffy.  Anya better watch her back.

Uh. Uh.

*gasp*

You guys are so sweet. That's the one thing that's been keeping me giggling throughout this entire thread. But she's not dead, so you know, it's okay.

SHE'S NOT!! Dammit! Shhh! Zip it! Ah! Nope! No! Not dead! NOT, I tell you, she's NOT!

I hate Joss Whedon with every fibre of my being. No, really.

Y'all think he did put her in the credits just so he could kill her? I bet he did. What a dirty rotten evil bastard.

Right - thoughts on the ep? Wow. Holy shit, wow. I totally got the B/X vibes. In fact, I was screaming at the TV at that point anyway that they'd better not start a-smoochin', or I'd be pissed. You've got to laugh. Heh. Dammit.

Jonathon? Whatever, dude - too little, too late. Andrew? Just suck it up and admit you like dick. Warren's dick. Whatever.

GAH! Did you hear the moaning? And the hotness? Lalalalalalalalalalala I can't hear you. The episode ended at 8:58 for me, and I dare anyone to prove differently. I don't believe you.

Loved the Anya thing, that she was so bitter she didn't even notice that the distraughtee was wishing. Dawn was marginally annoying. I TOTALLY thought that Spike was going to stake himself. TOTALLY. The rape scene? I don't think he was saying that he couldn't believe he'd done it. I actually thought that he was saying that he couldn't believe he DIDN'T do it - you know, since he's evil an' all <insert eyeroll here>. Gah! Word on the biting metaphor, but I think it was still effective.

Holy shit. Damn. I'll rewatch, but be prepared for "comatose" Ginni over the next few days. And her twin "In denial" Ginni. Gah.


Oh, and SNeak? Bite me. Bitch. :)

It ain't just a river in Egypt anymore, folks.

And dude. At one point, I felt like someone on some cheesy flick going "Snap out of it, man!". I just may still have to slap her.

Anyhow. The show kicked all kinds of ass. I love being surprised. Although I shoulda known that all that T/W and  B/X Awww-ness would come at a price. Silly, naive scully.

The rape scene? Was quite disturbed. But with hindsight, it pretty much made sense. Spike is pretty much "Line? Since when is there a line?" and Buffy, I'm afraid to admit, was trying to let him off gently until she finally got the clue re: above lack of line-ness.

And despite it all, I think Jonathan's never been overly evil. I suspect he only got into this Axis of Nerdiness business to annoy Buffy at worst. So I appreciated his actions today.

Ginni (re: someone else): Yay! He's not dead. Unlike SOME people.

The bitterness is so thick in this room, I just might need an oxygen tent. Oh, wait. That's already been reserved.

You're all caught up on Buffy, but you're still 3 weeks behind on Angel?

Holy Fucking Crap.

Scuse my language.  

It felt like 'Kill people off' night on Sky. Though Scully  - thanks, for the reassurance for Angel!  I needed that too.

So far, there has been shoouting screaming, hugging of cushions tonight.  I can't actually form coherent thoughts at the moment about the episodes, except, 'B b b b b but.....'

Will try to post sensibly later.

Edited to reply to SNeaker.

yeah -  they started Angel the week after the Double Buffy season opener.  So we're way behind.  It sucks not being able to go over inot those threds yet!

So sorry.

I've just rewatched the ending - I missed some bits that people have mentioned aqnd wanted to see if I could catch them this time round.

Xander's 'I couldn't do without you or Will' got me this time - I know it's anvilly, but *sniff*.  It's going to be him picking up the pieces now.  I can't wait to see next weeks!

Okay, so I saw this one last week thanks to the lovely Khari, but I was slightly inebriated at the time and rewatched at 8pm so I could pretend I'm a normal Sky-owning person.  I even stopped the CD at regular intervals and put ITV on for adverts.  And I'm kidding.

Dawn's excitement about Tara and Willow "reuniting" was actually pretty cute, but I could have done without the scene with her and Spike in his crypt, that was yawn-worthy.

Good god, what did they make Amber wear when she came downstairs?  A big skirt topped of with a long-flared peasant top that just screamed "Cynthia Bergstrom hates me and wants to make me look like a tent!"

Anya's rant cracked me up.  I love Anya.  I have a huge overdraft, but it took so much willpower not to buy the BunnyAnya figure the other night.

JM looks mighty fine in a black crew-neck.  That was my shallow thought for the bathroom scene before the almost-rape had me sat with my jaw open going "No.  No, no, no!"  Very well played and I though the set it up pretty well to get Buffy to a point where she couldn't fight back very well.

The scene with the Nerds in the Bronze only amused me when I saw Andrew in the background, dodging flying bodies while sipping his umbrella-filled cocktail.  It was a totally throw away moment, but it tickled me.  And yes, Andrew is completely besotted with Warren.  "Can't wait to get my hands on his orbs" and yelling "No!" a little two emotionally when the arch collapsed on Warren during his fight with Buffy.  How didn't Jonathan know the other two were wearing jet packs?  They were wearing big jackets, but not that big.

The moment when Xander came into the bathroom and found out that Spike had attacked Buffy made me tingle.  The "Son of a Bitch" line and the look on his face were spot-on.  I spy  a relationship on the horizon, I won't be surprised if they put those two together.

Tara looked really pretty in the final scene, just before she got shot.  Obviously Cynthia decided she didn't mind Amber looking pretty for a few moments before she got blood all over that lovely lilac sweater.

Mainly?  Relief it wasn't Xander.  To lose him just when we got him back (to good acting! to friend-of-Buffy!) would have been cruel.  Yeah, I see the irony.

Also: wonderment at the amazing magic bullet.  I didn't realise there was a grassy knoll in Buffy's garden.  

(Wow, is it me or does that last sentence sound dirty?)

Until you mentioned it, no.

There were a few nice moments, and a few jaw dropping ones as well.  I'm sure I've heard 'There's something on your shirt' before, in a similar context.  Still, AH was making me cry at the end - when she cries out in anguish, it makes me sniffle.  
This has really been a weird season, hasn't it?

I want to see Giles' reaction though as well.  Bring back Giles damn it!

Y'know, no matter how much I wish it to be untrue, the bullet really did have a chance at hitting her. He was shooting from right in front of the window, and he was on the ground, the angle was right, he was shooting wildly...

GAH!

*sob*

Y'know, the advent of guns into Sunnydale really to me smacks of reality sinking into the show. And also with the metaphorless attempted rape. It all sucks, uh, stinks of reality and less metaphor. And frankly I don't think that's a bad thing - it's a growing up thing.

Wow, Ginni (or her friend In Denial Ginni) is really handling this a lot better than I thought she would. Kudos to you, Miss Together.

And you should be proud, Pandrea. That is possibly the dirtiest thing I have ever heard.

Was it in The Body, Heatherbelle?

SNeaker, your theory on page one is brilliant.  That would have been so right, and what's more, it would neatly have side-stepped the difficult issues of whether it was all just a lesson to Buffy not to play at S&M games (which it wasn't, but y'know).  Guess that solves once and for all the ongoing debate over whether William-the-Bloody was "just" a mass murderer or a murderer and a rapist, eh?  Although I'm willing to bet that there are folks out there fiercely insisting that he wasn't aware she was really saying no and believed it was a game or whatever.  Plus, it would also have tied in nicely to the idea of death, Buffy's feelings about it, the upcoming Tara death, etc, with vamping actually meaning death - ie, giving in to Spike would be giving up on life.  

I love how no one's the slightest bit concerned that Buffy is in any danger.  I guess they just wrote that in to explain why she didn't go after Warren.

And by the way: HATING Warren.  That is, the character; I think he's very well played and a very effective villain, so nasty.  I'm also pretty much hating Andrew - what a dick.  Have fun in the jail showers.  However, I hope this isn't the last we see of Jonathan.  I hope somehow he manages to find redemption and move on - he does seem like someone who could learn a lesson, although mind you we all thought that after Earshot and then Superstar.  But he did come through, thank goodness.

Dawn?  Makes no sense.  I find it slightly disturbing that she's so excited and invested in Willow and Tara getting it on.  It makes me think of squicky fanfic or something.  Also, she was talking bollocks to Spike.  Wasn't the whole point that Buffy didn't really care about Spike having sex with Anya, except to feel more disappointed in herself for lack of taste and, in seeing how Anya's actions were motivated, seeing how her own were similar?  Buffy.  Doesn't.  Love.  Spike.  I wish the writers wouldn't try to have their cake and eat it.

I'm hoping also that he's now away until next series, when if he comes back, it'll be in full evil mode.  If this is his Lover's Walk moment part two ("I'm sick of being mopey, I'll go and kick some arse till I feel better"), I'm all for it.  Plus, I also can't stop myself hoping he has some good meals - Mr Marsters is looking awfully thin, that black top did suit him, but when he turned sideways you could hardly see him.  I virtually never comment on the actors' weight, or notice it, so it must have gone down masses suddenly.

Still can't quite bring myself to feel I'll really miss Tara that much, and yet, I liked her and everything.  But, like Riley, she's just sort of nice scenery for me: not annoying me, but not why I watch the show.  Giles leaving, I'm still not over that.  Xander getting shot, that would be terrible.  Even losing Anya, who at one point I strongly disliked, would be a loss now that she's actually being both funny and rather touching, though I could deal.  But Tara?  It's sad and all, but the prospects for some good drama are well worth it.  Although it could also be horrible.  Evil Willow good, Grief-stricken, never-the-same-again Willow dull.

Calm Ginni?  I think it's the beer.  Man, I wouldn't want to be your hangover tomorrow.

Oh, better; that after all he's a vampire and a demon, which Buffy knew when she got involved, so we should be really impressed that he felt bad afterwards.  Even in one place that she should've known better than to fuck with his head like that and of *course* he was confused.

I am actually completely willing to believe that Spike figured the bathroom would go exactly the way almost every sexual encounter they've had since "Smashed" did.  "No.  No.  Oh, okay."  For, you know, about three seconds.  But after that, it was just his certainty that he knows Buffy better than she knows herself and she *wants* this.

(I also think that's part of why the Dawn-and-Spike scene is in there - to let Spike know Buffy was hurt by his sleeping with Anya, which makes him think "hey, if I just go and take her everything'll be good again!")

About Warren... the actor's definitely doing a good job.  Enough so that I had a brief moment of liking (much against my will) during the beat-up-the-jock scene.  'Cause, hey, who hasn't fantasized about getting people back every now and then?  Of course, he's also very successfully creepy.

Actually, I've been thinking that they're having success doing with Anya - and, in that one bit of a scene, with Warren - what they wanted to do with Spike.  Someone who's doing wrong, maybe even someone who's evil - I think the jury's still out on Anya, depending on what her followthrough looks like - but gets some sympathy anyway.  I've been thinking that maybe they should've had JM play Spike a little colder, or written in him being mean at the Bronze and scaring people for fun, or something.

Urgh, like you wouldn't believe.  Thank the gods for this place.  'Fugee and the Kitten Board (where I don't usually go 'cause I tend not to like the 'ship centered boards much) have been my havens from all the "Poor Wittle Spike, now let's try to justify attempted rape" stuff.  It sorta pisses me off that Tara died and the majority of posts at TWoP are still Spike centered.  Gah!

(Yes, I'm bitter.  Why do you ask?)