Is it wrong that I wanted the very end to go something like this?
***
SPIKE drapes himself over the cross. Smoke begins to rise. Beat.
BUFFY: Oh, I am *so* not going through this crap again. <turns and leaves>[/quote] Hee. Next week on Buffy:
"Am I a bloke worth saving? Am I a sodding righteous man?"
scully
Oct 2 2002, 02:15 AM
Bwah!!
Um.. I need to rewatch more attentively with Furie tonight before writing my thoughts on this ep. I will say that I liked it, though, if not as much as the premiere.
And... What the deuce happened to you lot?? It's hours later and yet only a few (ish) new posts? I'm baffled, to say the least. Eej and I suspect y'all had a Watching-A-Better-Show party and didn't invite us.
Snerk
mjforty
Oct 2 2002, 02:21 AM
I liked this episode better than last week's episode but overall I'm still left feeling "eh." I guess I just want them not to rehash Season 6 as much as they're doing right now because I loathed Season 6 and the less said about it the better.
Things I liked:
I liked Spike when he was trying to be sane. I think I mainly appreciated it because he wasn't mooning over Buffy.
I'm intrigued by the opening sequences. I like the idea that someone is going around killing off potential slayers. This is a storyline that could get interesting.
The end sequence with Spike and Buffy in the church was very well done. I thought JM and SMG both did an excellent acting job there. It didn't evoke a strong emotional response from me (I save those for when Giles is being all paternal-like with Buffy) but I definitely ended up liking both characters a little bit more than I did before they entered the church.
I like Anya. I can't help myself, I just do.
Things I wasn't so crazy about:
Could that "Tremors" worm have been any cheesier? Really, this show needs to stay away from fake snake-like creatures because they just do them badly.
Oh, God, Dawn trying to be all threatening. Puh-leese. I didn't mind her so much last week but she's back on my too annoying for words list this week.
Uh, when did it become acceptable for the Scooby Gang to sit around and discuss their entire business with a complete stranger?
Overall, I don't think this show is "back" as I've read elsewhere but at least it hasn't sunk any deeper and may actually have inched up some.
ejg25
Oct 2 2002, 02:46 AM
Yes, I still don't think it's objectively "good" — which I define as something I would urge my civilian friends to watch and would feel proud of — or back to what it was. But it's improved and interested me much more than I expected.
I really disliked Scrappy's threatening Spike, too. But she had a redeeming moment early on in Xander's car. I thought Trachtenberg delivered the line "Those of us in the car who are me are delighted" perfectly and funnily.
And, yeah, where were you all? Lonely West Coasters, sounds of silence.
Nalian
Oct 2 2002, 08:05 AM
I was sleeping. Work schedule all aflip and I had to be up early. Anyways..
Since I know you're all in suspence and have no possible guess as to how I felt.................I liked it. Yes I know, how atypical of me. The show feels to me like its in a good groove. The slayer dreams coming back (or just having them again) were a nice touch. I liked the banter between Buffy, Dawn and Xander. The way Anya looked at Spike and figured out he had his soul back was great. I thought Anya sending him flying across the room was pretty cool, too. It was nice to see her powers including more than just the wish and orbing about.
I knew in my head that the scooby gang had dwindled down to just a few, but I odn't think I realized just how much til Dawn said her "round up the gang" line. It made me sad to think that its shrunken down to just the three of them, and Spike-the-crazy. I miss Willow and Anya being a part of the group. And damnit, stop showing me Tara dying! Its bad enough she's not there.
I did find it odd that they were talking in front of the new girl as well, mjforty. But I figured since she saw the tremor worm and her little dog was eaten..oh well. I thought it was great that the girl had interest in Xander, and that she was just as awkward as he was at it.
Spike and Buffy really sold the last scene. I almost felt bad for Spike, and I definitely felt bad for Buffy because she's got to be feeling conflicted over the whole issue. She may or may not love Spike (I've honestly no clue) but she's obviously got some feelings for him. Its strange to think that Demon!Spike was just as horrified as Soul!Spike is by his actions last season. I'm pretty confused as to whether or not he actually got the soul back on purpose. Last year I would have said no, last night implied yes. But who knows what Crazy!Spike really did and why - I wonder if he even really knows at this point.
aberdeen
Oct 2 2002, 08:37 AM
Hey guys! Yeah, sorry I didn't come by here last night. I went computer-free the whole night.
I loved the opening sequence and am very excited at the idea that they are killing off potential slayers. I really hope they go somewhere very cool with this and don't screw it up (coughmagicaddictioncough). I thought Run, Lola, Run immediately but it may have been a shout-out to Alias as well. (I don't think it was a jab- JJ Abrams said some super nice things about Buffy in a NY Times article a few weeks ago about Joss Whedon, which makes me think they all like each other.)
I liked the rest of the episode just fine. I don't think the show is back either but I do think it's taking steps in the right direction. I guess what keeps me from jumping in wholeheartedly is that I take Spike's resouling a lot less seriously than the show does. Yeah, that was a long, emotional scene at the end there. And it was Very Special, with the long rambling dialogue and the significant close-ups. It felt too forced to me, like it was trying too hard to be important and I guess I may feel this way because I still say "whatever" about Spike. I'll have to rewatch (I actually want to rewatch!) because I was distracted through most of that last scene by my cat being Mr. Destructo.
But, I liked the feel of the episode. It was pretty close to classic monster of the week with a twist and something about the Big Picture. I'm looking forward to seeing how it is when Willow returns- if they're able to maintain the back-to-basics feel.
SNeaker
Oct 2 2002, 08:57 AM
I think there's something wrong with me because I thought James Van Der Beek looked pretty hot in the commercials for The Rules of Attraction.
Huh? Episode?
Ho hum.
That Spike. What a drama queen. Lends new meaning to the line "Get off the cross, we need the wood." Also to the line "Bored Now." Also, the salt, and the servicing? Ewww.
::sigh:: They're really trying. But...where be the spunk? The flavor? The "oooh, evil portents, I'm quaking in my boots" snark? Is adulthood really that drab? Alas, with Cordelia gone and Spike all cuckoo now, we can't even have one character to bring a little less oogedy boogedy and a little more fun around here.
I don't get it, did someone tell SMG and NB that something was wrong with their comic delivery the first few years? Why do they persist with the wacky, and the jerky head movements and lip gyrations?
On the bright side: "There's only so long you can use that excuse." Finally! Preach it Xander, testify.
I am now a Xander/Nancy 'shipper. Now *she* had whatdya call it? Personality.
Nalian
Oct 2 2002, 09:14 AM
| QUOTE (SNeaker @ Today at 9:57 am) | I think there's something wrong with me because I thought James Van Der Beek looked pretty hot in the commercials for The Rules of Attraction.[/quote] So. So. SO wrong. We must get you help immediately.
_random_
Oct 2 2002, 10:48 AM
Hey, y'all.
My 2 rubles: The last scene was good. Buffy sympathetic while still being the hardass the situation warrants, Spike gives eeeeexcellent pain and torment. But the rest of the episode was so... stinky. Unnecessary exposition, awkward staging, Ass Xander, no plot, lots of padding. Everything that sucked last season. Back to film school and no cookies for anybody.
Okay. Recap:
"Beneath You"
Buffy: Do I have to? DeutscheSlayer: Yes. Buffy: Run, Lola, Run! Hooded Fiends: Overrated. Buffy: Poor Lola. DeutscheSlayer: Verily, things are gonna turn to total shit.
Spike: Wah! Rat: Crybaby.
Xander: Can I save you from anything? Victim: A giant worm! Xander: Hee! Victim: It ate my dog! Xander: Phew, baby! Rrrrowr! Victim: Clearly a construction worker.
Spike: I came to grovel. Buffy: As you should. Spike: But with dignity. Buffy: Feh. Dawn: Feh. Xander: Feh. Spike: I miss my rat.
Anya: Looove the new soul. Spike: This old thing? I found it in the back of the closet.
Worm: Ssssssspice! Victim: Heeeeeeelp! Spike: Die! Former worm: Ow! Spike: Verily, things are gonna turn to total shit. DeutscheSlayer: Forsooth.
Buffy: Remorseful monologue. NOW. Spike: Couldn't I just eat some broken lightbulbs? Buffy: That's later. Spike: Well, here goes... I wanted... and you didn't... like some Spikebot... It's all so... Can't even keep a shirt on... All for... And not even... Buffy: Spike! Finish a fucking sentence! Spike: Got a soul. Now my life is a heartburn commercial. Buffy: But why? Spike: Love's bitch. Buffy: Love's *pony* at this point. Spike: Yeah. Buffy: Yeah. Spike: Tired now. Gotta lie down. Buffy: Spike! Not on church furniture! Spike: (sizzles) Buffy: Is it wrong that I'm craving ribs right now?
jenelope
Oct 2 2002, 12:30 PM
Forget ME, UPN should put random's recaps on the air, instead! Hee!
Anyway, it didn't blow and it didn't blow me away. I thought it was an interesting early in the season, moving the story along episode.
I thought the ending was pretty good, but very long. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Spike has a soul now. And he's crazy as a loon. Where's the big episode ending moment? Ah, there it is. Nice symbolism. My interpretation of the symbolism is that the cross represents Buffy, the messianic character. Spike in his ranting and raving and incredible pain, turns to the cross for solace, but just finds more pain. I'm kind of hoping that it's also foreshadowing that he's only going to get more pain from Buffy, too. But considering the track record of pandering to the Spuffy 'shippers, I'm not holding my breath.
I have decided that the whole Spuffy thing is the only thing I am even slightly bitter about. My anti-shipperness was the only thing keeping me from being a full-on Redemptionista during Season 5. After Season 6, it made me actually hate Spike. I guess I just want things my way.
ejg25
Oct 2 2002, 02:27 PM
After what she witnessed, I thought perhaps that Buffy should stake Spike out of mercy. Angel didn't go through a tenth of that, and I think Angel is a stronger person. Spike's always been a wuss, and now it seems like his interior territory is just a battleground for his chip, his soul, his insanity, his guilt, and his two personas to wage war upon. It's like, enough's enough. He's damaged beyond repair now... maybe she should bring him peace before he starts bathing in holy water. I can't decide which of random's recap lines are the best, but these are genius. Hee! QUOTE Spike: Wah! Rat: Crybaby. QUOTE Buffy: Is it wrong that I'm craving ribs right now? QUOTE Spike: Got a soul. Now my life is a heartburn commercial.
mjforty
Oct 2 2002, 04:47 PM
I want what jenelope wants, as well. QUOTE Spike: (sizzles) Buffy: Is it wrong that I'm craving ribs right now? I love that random's back.
Claudia
Oct 2 2002, 06:30 PM
I kinda resent the idea that I'm being pandered to, because I don't think that's it at all. But I can just say that much and leave the rest of that discussion understood, if we like.
I liked it all all all, except Tara's name better pass Willow's lips sometime soon or I'm going to have to start hating her and not just the writers who addicted her last season.
Lola!!!!!!! I certainly hope these are potential slayers--nothing else would be half as interesting. I don't think they're real slayers because I think they've been deliberately shown as not having slayer strength.
Spikealicious.
CBee
Oct 2 2002, 08:18 PM
I definitely thought they were doing Alias, right down to the wig, the actress they picked, and the way it was shot.
Also, wasn't that Nancy from "The Wish"?
I thought the ep was just ok - a lot of setting up, low on plot in itself. At least they're giving James Marsters something to do. Dawn was annoying beyond the telling of it.
Claudia
Oct 2 2002, 08:54 PM
I liked Dawn too. Even when she was telling off Spike, I was trying to be pissed off at any hint of DtVS, but instead I was enjoying the shift in the Spike-Dawn relationship.
That would have been very cool if it had been Nancy from The Wish, but I presume Beneath You's Nancy is Kaarina Aufranc (the post-main credit credits are Special Guest Star Anthony Stewart Head; Guest Starring Kaarina Aufranc; And DB Woodside As Principal Wood), and Nancy in the wish is Mariah someone.
Given that I always figured Alias's opener was a deliberate nod to Lola Rennt, I'm not sure how one can tell which one something else is referencing. ;-) But the soundtrack said Lola to me. And hey, Germany.
jenelope
Oct 2 2002, 10:05 PM
"Pander" was perhaps not the best word choice. I used it out of frustration with a potentially interesting, but poorly executed storyline. Apologies.
Claudia
Oct 2 2002, 10:33 PM
Not required, but thanks. I think I get frustrated about the discussion of the storyline. Oops.
ejg25
Oct 3 2002, 01:20 AM
I thought that opening music and the cutting were very Alias. But then I haven't seen Lola run.
In all the Spiketude, I forgot something I meant to say about Willow. I understand that it's a natural fear, but I still found it somewhat surprising that she was so worried about being forgiven and accepted by her friends back in Sunnydale. Because she can't be in any doubt about the stance of at least one of her friends. Xander forgave and accepted her in the middle of her evil world-destroying, so she knows he'll love and accept her now. That must help some.
Nalian
Oct 3 2002, 10:55 AM
I'm sure it helps some, yeah..but remember how well she didn't react to him being (rightfully) suspicious that she'd done a spell that made Buffy invisible. I think if she were anything other than unsure of her friend's reactions, I'd be pretty surprised. They may always love her and accept her in some fashion..but I wouldn't want my friends to be afraid of me. And I'd imagine thats her biggest worry.
aberdeen
Oct 3 2002, 01:57 PM
I think it's also a projection of her own fears about herself. She's afraid that she may never be "Willow" again, she's afraid of her own powers and of going back to the place where she tried to destroy the world so she believes that her friends are afraid of the same thing.
By the way, I gather that there's a new composer. Does anyone know who he/she is, when Wanker got the boot (I don't have to ask why, do I?) etc.
jenelope
Oct 3 2002, 02:21 PM
All I know about the new composer is a last name: Romayne.
ejg25
Oct 3 2002, 02:23 PM
I'm just rewatching now, and realize that Buffy said, "I still haven't finished college." She said "still"! Not, "I'm not a college graduate" or "I didn't finish college." No, active verb tenses... yay.
kmm56
Oct 3 2002, 09:00 PM
I did feel the desire to take Willow aside and inform her of this great new invention called a "telephone." Or even a "computer," with "e-mail." I mean, what, is she going to just show up at the Summers abode and wave? QUOTE That Spike. What a drama queen. Well, yeah. But it's entertaining! I'm not sure how I feel about Willow still having magical power. On the one side, you still have the Willow ex machina issues. On the other, though, I kind of appreciate that the answer to her being strong wasn't to make her weak.
ladexter
Oct 7 2002, 02:11 PM
Who knew that Jennifer Garner would make a guest-spot on a fading UPN drama?
I hate Spike; I've hated him since Season Three. I hated last season, because the primary focus was Spike and Buffy. I hate Spike and Buffy. If the same continues this season - and I know that it will - I'll hate S7 just as much. I hate that Joss isn't explaining anything. I hate that Nancy looks exactly like Anya with shorter hair and a thinner face. I hate that Spike is Drusilla. I like Drusilla. But I don't like Spike.
Basically, this episode was no better than any of the mediocre episodes in Season Six. I read the posts at other boards about this episode being excellent, and that Doug Petrie has finally returned to his form. What form? His "Bad Girls" form? That's bullshit. "Bad Girls" had a plot, Fuffy and it had Faith. This episode had none of those. There was not a thing that stands out about this episode and makes me want to watch it again, or in the future.
However, it did have little Dawn. That's always a plus. Still, Seasons 1-5 had no Dawn at all. So I'm still an unhappy bastard. This episode was nothing like last week's episode, and it did nothing to please me. Except for that little look between Xander and Spike, and the scenes with Anya.
Pandrea
Nov 6 2002, 07:11 AM
Okay, greatly distracted for much of this ep by working out in what proportion Nancy was a mixture of Toni Collette and Charisma Carpenter. I kinda liked her, not that I think she'll be back. No, she's not calling you, Xander. Thought the 'has everyone slept with each other?' bit and the glance between Xander and Spike was a hoot - a million fanfics were born, right then, and I bet that's where the idea came from anyway.
Like everyone else, I so called the Run Lola Run of it all. I kind of want them to stop with the inscrutabile hints now, though.
Liked Spike-on-a-cross, though distracted by Marsters' back ripples - he looks SO much better in the shirt. Totally confused, though: for most of the ep I was thinking, 'ah, but that's not Spike - he's still mad in the basement, that's the Mystery Basement Power pretending to be him'. Only, it turns out, not. I think, though, that's better. I like that Spike tried to pull himself together, dye his hair and be sane, but that he was still pretty much evil - taunting her with the attempted rape? and that's WITH a soul! - and that he got so barking he actually was going to 'service' her right there: that's majorly fucked up, so it's interesting. I maintain there will never be a happy ending for Spike and Buffy, unless you consider desperate, sick, hopeless Spike sacrificing himself to save her in one last bid to be good happy - and I don't know that I don't, really. I still see no sign whatsoever that Buffy ever has or ever will actually love him. Okay, and the title was neat.
If Dawn is going to hurt Spike for hurting Buffy, why doesn't she do it now? He already did. And they really need to stop using him every time they need something - not for his sake, though - yes, I KNOW it's because they want to keep him in the show, but after all that's happened, the only thing any real person would do is keep far, far away from him. Also, Dawn was in Season 5, ladexter.
I'm confused over Xander. On the one hand, yes, he's quite right to call Anya on the idea that eventually her excuses start running out. On the other, there's something about his self-righteousness that even I'm starting to find a tad grating. The bit where Nancy says something about 'have you ever had an ex treat you badly' and he kind of gives that 'oh, yes' look. Considering how lightly he got off from what he did to first Cordelia and then Anya, he's got a bit of a cheek, there. Anya's hair, as she talked to the girl in the coffee shop, was lovely. Do you think she was jealous of Spike getting a soul? Was there a bit of 'where did you get that, I want one' about her reaction?
Agreeing with Eej about Willow being so unsure after Xander's big lurve speech - didn't he spell it out enough? On the other hand, she's got to have general doubts. I'd have made them more 'there's so much power there, I don't know if I can handle going back there, plus it's bad enough that the coven are scared of me - will my friends be, too?' but whatever. Love Giles, as ever. I'm plotholing that since he said he had a flat in Bath last season, he's actually been staying with the coven in their big rural commune while Willow's been there, that's not actually his house. I would actually like to see more of the coven, in fact. Couldn't they afford a few women in long skirts wandering around the background? I'd have done it for free.
'Still haven't finished college'? Can we pleeeeeease have her take a couple classes a week, then? Some sort of catch-up thing? We don't even have to see the campus, if they really don't want to rebuild it - just mention it, then the odd bit of her sitting around with textbooks. Could even parallel Dawn doing her homework. Also, while I can see I'm just going to have to shrug and accept this new Not!Counsellor job of Buffy's, since it's been made so clear that it doesn't pay, is she still at Doublemeat Palace or is there another source of income? This season seems, so far, better at tying up loose ends, so I would appreciate a tiny explanation.
Overall, the episode was pretty forgettable, but entertaining enough. I agree it's no Classic Buffy, but few are these days.
ejg25
Nov 6 2002, 11:57 AM
"Plotholing." New verb. I like.
They wouldn't even have to rebuild sets to send the gang back to college, as all the exteriors and some interiors were shot in real places.
I haven't found Xander arrogant with regards to Anya's behavior since the breakup; on the contrary, I think he feels guilty and responsible, but he was right in pointing out that ultimately it's her responsibility. Choosing to be a demon and torture people is not the reaction a normal person has to being hurt in love.
I also don't feel that he was so horrible to Cordelia and Anya. He didn't mean to hurt them, but ended up doing collateral damage, as we all do while floundering in the seas of love.
Shut up. Sometimes the bad puns get in your system and you just have to work them out.
Ginni
Nov 8 2002, 03:26 PM
QUOTE Choosing to be a demon and torture people is not the reaction a normal person has to being hurt in love. It's not? Damn - that's usually my response. Oh well.
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