You know, I'm liking Lilah more and more. You go with your evil self, girl! You're right, Angel's not going to do a damn thing to you.

Wes is well off the deep end, and I hope we get him back eventually. Ah well.

Anyway, I think that was solid. The writers were new, so I'll give them the unable-to-strangle-vampires thing on the basis that that really makes more sense than the canon anyway. I did appreciate Angel being vaguely proactive and useful. And hey, think of the opportunity he has to score decency points by answering Cordy's question honestly.

But damn, Gunn. That's not nice.

Next week starts with a deficit of several hundred points for ripping off S6 Buffy, but it looks like it'll be fun, so... we'll see.

You know, I never get tired of that "whip head to the side and *SNAP*" move. It's just so cool looking.

I liked this episode. I liked that it made Fred a teeny bit likeable and added dimension to Gunn and Wesley's characters.

But, you know, I always get tired of the Cordy/Angel shipper storyline. A mere whisper of their love is enough to make me groan and reach for the remote.

Aww, who's a sweet little kitten? mjforty is!

I do have one continuing problem:

Lorne reads Cordy. There's bad things a'comin'. Let's say, oh, apocalyptic things.

The info Lorne got from Cordy is removed from his brain, so now they don't know what's coming.

Angel then wants to convince Lorne to read Cordy again.

Uh? Angel, sweetcakes, pudding, you're A Major Player In The Apocalypse. Everyone says so. You're *right there.* Wouldn't it be easier to just have yourself read? I mean, isn't there a high chance that you and Cordelia are going to be experiencing the same Very Bad Mojo?

Damned Mutants. Damned Enemies. Why'd they have to make me like Fred even more?

So, does this mean that Fred isn't the kind of person to kill a human, but Gunn is? I don't get that. And I bet this causes a rift in their relationship. Which I'm not cool with. When they push the relationship at us and are all precious, I get a little tired of them. But the fact is, if someone has to be a couple, I like Fred and Gunn for that role. They work for me.

Cordelia's hair looks a little darker. That's about all I have to say about her at this point.

Angel and his "chatty rooms" comment was too much. It was a good effort at a shout-out but it wasn't really working and that comment pushed it too far. Besides, you know that Angel is on Google looking for "vampire with a soul" and "mysterious stranger rescued me in LA" whenever things get slow. He probably has his own chat room. "Brooding Tragic Champions" or something like that. In fact, I would suspect him of trading hair gel reviews at the Looking Good board if I didn't know he was a fictional character.
Overall, a solid episode.

I'm actually a Fred/Wesley shipper. I'm never a shipper! I wait to see what develops rather than rooting for a relationship. Weird.

"Chatty rooms", ew.

I think Fred and Gunn are both the sort to kill someone if need be, but for different reasons. Gunn's action was strangely selfish, I think. He didn't want to see her go through the guilt and whatever--so now instead she'll have to see him go through it.

Kmm, I think vampires not being strangleable is the canon. Darla referred to it too. It was the Drusilla choking that was the mistake.

I continue to love this show. I liked this one because it showed that the characters have… not interior, but anterior lives. Fred has a past and a previous career, and I’m glad to see that reincorporated. And it’s also nice to finally play the contrasts between Fred and Gunn. They are a strange pair of bedfellows, when you get down to it, and it’s only their shared extreme circumstances that brought — and keep? — them together. I like the friction.

And speaking of bedfellows, hello to the scantily clad Gunn. They certainly have been keeping that set of skin covered on the show up to now. Don’t mind the change. He strikes me personally as more comfy than sexy, but that is one big beautiful man.

I didn’t foresee that ending with Gunn. It is interesting, and has a lot of potential. His sacrificing himself for her, but the stakes here are not his life but his guilt and possibly his sanity. It does seem that she’d have gone nutters if she’d done that. And so it seems even a bigger sacrifice than giving your life… turning yourself into a villain for another.

Although I don’t like the conclusion in that it was built on a faulty premise. They had to reverse the moral poles on Gunn and Wesley to set it up. Wesley is the one with the unerring moral sense that cannot be shaken, and Gunn is the one likely to act out of vengeance and who owes his only allegiances to his tribe, his people.

So happy to see Lilah jealous of Wesley’s attraction to Fred… ha HA! I like her more with each episode, but I want her to be entangled and hurt. I want him to be as little foolish and fond as it is possible for him to be; though I think I’ve realized by now that his emotional naiveté and needy pathetic cluelessness are always going to integral parts of him.

I was bothered when I thought Lilah had tried to suck Fred up into a cheesy special effect, though. No messing with her out of your petty jealousy.

I think I buy Wesley’s attraction to Fred a little more than I did… so long as it’s just a wistful, graceful might-have-been rather than the real relationship he had with Virginia. I just don’t buy this millennium’s Wesley pining distantly from afar. He’s the one sleeping with the bleached blondes and possessed of the recreational handcuffs, remember. Wesley and Fred both looked beautiful in that scene together, though. And with each episode he’s more disturbingly coming to resemble someone I had a non-thingy thing with… who do I see about that? Argh. All I need is to start conflating the two of them.

Cordelia actually looked pretty a few times in this episode, in spite of her monstrous hair. Ew, ew, ew to the incipient Angel/Cordelia whatever. No! No way. Not going to happen now, so soon. Connor must get back between them, until Gwen can return to save the day. Connor pretty. I think I’ve neatly transferred that crush I had at 8 on the boy from Witch Mountain.

The girl, the cat, and the peanut butter? Are we supposed to know that one?

“Come on… I’m holding your head…” Hee! I love Angel.

And how funny does next week look? “I’m a vampire… they’re going to kill me…” “She’s more tasty — half of her is neck!” Yes, but the rest of her is gristle. And my Wesley reunited with the gang… on the day Angel apologizes to him and they truly reconcile with a hug, I’m going to cry like a bitty baby.

QUOTE (ejg25 @ Today at 10:47 pm)

Connor pretty. I think I’ve neatly transferred that crush I had at 8 on the boy from Witch Mountain. [/quote] Oh. My. God. You hit the nail on the head there. I forgot to mention my favorite line: "Hulk smash!" I'm enjoying Lilah more these days than I have since Lindsey left. ejg25 Nov 4 2002, 11:23 PM Yes, he is verily the reincarnation of Ike Eisenmann. And he's singlehandedly restoring the sex appeal of David Cassidy's hairdo. You know, I was thinking that that photo might have been of Charisma Carpenter's actual parents. There was certainly enough of a resemblance — the man had her peculiar eyes — and I've known TV shows to do such things before. ejg25 Nov 5 2002, 02:01 PM A couple things I forgot to mention about this episode. One is my confusion about Fred's trip to Pylea. How exactly did the professor send her there? We'd always been given to understand that she was wandering in the stacks, found a book, and read out loud from it. Did he just point her to the book, or give it to her? Or was he actively opening the portal while she was reading, meaning that the book had no effect? Also, I liked Connor's reaction to Cordelia's rejection. He's wild and violent, but when it comes to relationships he's wholly 16-year-old boy... he was so excited and innocent. When Cordelia told him "we need to talk" and he didn't instantly get a panicked or hard look on his face, I thought, "Wow, he really has been in another dimension." lejo Nov 5 2002, 10:03 PM Wow. That was a real 'goll-y' moment for me. But did anyone else think the cover story they gave Angel was a pot-shot at the contrived climaxes many scifi shows come up with? Like Smallville? Just me? I'm not watching too deeply these days, but Angel as a show continues to bring me back, with some amount of enthusiasm to boot. Christ, half of my shows are on the WB. I'm sick. ladexter Nov 10 2002, 05:15 PM I did not like this episode. I don't know what else to say. It wasn't extremely bad, but it was certainly not anything I'd ever debate watching again. It wasn't fun, funny, intense, or really, anything but enough to get by. I mostly forget everything. That said, I'm in support of a Cordelia/Connor pairing. And damn do I love Lilah. Pandrea Nov 18 2002, 01:30 PM They made me like Fred! That's not the sort of thing you just forgive. Damn it, this was the first time I got any sense of what they've been trying to do with her, and with her and Gunn. Make anyone dark and I fall for it, I'm so cheap. Still, there's something about her that reminds me of that recent (to me) West Wing episode, The Two Bartletts: it's like she puts on that 'little ole me' jabber to hide her brains and her real self. Gunn may be about the bestest boyfriend ever and yes, he is a beautiful, beautiful man. Even if he does wear P Diddy shirts to cover it up. I could totally see the resentment in that last scene; he did it for her because he loves her so much, but she almost made him do it - he's bound to start resenting that. I do see the point that Gunn's first loyalty is to his people, but on the other hand, this is the guy who staked his sister, no quibbling, no hesitation. He does have a moral sense. Wesley (MmmWesley) is the guy who will do a crappy thing for the greater good, who will take on hard choices and tough decisions if they are necessary (and really, how else were they going to stop that guy? I actually thought they were going for the 'lab assistant is in love with him and kills her perceived rivals' story, thank god they didn't. Perhaps the guy told Fred to go look that book up? How stupid was he to try the dimension opening at a public lecture instead of waiting till she came to his office?). I wonder how disappointed he'll be that she didn't join the Dark Side along with him? It's not like a great love, I think, more that he really identifies with her. I'm loving Lilah. Gidget - twig - Hulk smash - she rocks! But in an eeeevil way. I tittered a little at the comic references, like the Dark Horse bit. Connor is absolutely adorable, in his PsychoDavidCassidy way. That poor, poor boy. ejg25 Nov 18 2002, 09:32 PM QUOTE (Pandrea @ [b) Today[/b] at 10:30 am]Still, there's something about her that reminds me of that recent (to me) West Wing episode, The Two Bartletts: it's like she puts on that 'little ole me' jabber to hide her brains and her real self. Perhaps we're witnessing the tug-of-war a Southern woman feels between the traditions of gentility and femininity, and the possession of abilities far exceeding those of most men in a field that is traditionally very male? It's just speculation, as I'm neither a physicist nor a Southern woman. I wonder if Fred is going to start to reject Gunn because, in reality, having a boyfriend who would and did kill for you is scary rather than endearing. You make a good point about Gunn's killing of his sister as having been analagous to the hard choices Wesley always opts for. Gunn doesn't seem as at ease with it or certain of himself when he does things like that, though; I think he's still on the fence. And he feels really bad about them afterward, whereas I get the sense that Wesley feels guilty but accepts that guilt as the cost of doing what's right. Pandrea Nov 19 2002, 05:26 AM I think that's a nice consistency though. Gunn's had this hard life where he had to try to keep himself disciplined and was aware that he could go over the edge. Wesley's been trained to this from a young age, he probably learnt all about the different scenarios and tactics; I'm not sure that he wouldn't see feeling guilty as an indulgence. Also, he's older and that must make a difference. Uh - actually, how old is Wesley, do we know? Surely older than Gunn, eh? ejg25 Nov 19 2002, 12:52 PM If I had to guess, I'd say that Wesley was about 33 or 34. But the whole fact of seeing actors who look my age (which they are) but hearing that they're 20 is starting to mess with my head. I mean, Gunn isn't supposed to be much more than 22. kmm56 Nov 19 2002, 04:07 PM Of course, since Fred was a grad student (officially confimed!) she was presumably at least 22 when she was taken and thus is now around 28. So yes, Fred is seven years older than Cordelia. Pandrea Nov 19 2002, 04:48 PM Mind-boggling. This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here. Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.