Rolling the previous thread.

So as I was saying: Dork Tower has our number.

I feel like the cartoonist has been eavesdropping on my conversations. That's very funny.

I've been inspired I've just borrowed out the Fellowship of the Ring - I wanted to get all the books but only FoR was in.

Hmm I need to go see the Two Towers again.

Did anyone spot any of the goofs? Aparently one of Eomer's men was wearing sunglasses.

so many georgus men : )

I'm nearly finished RoTK - the book. I've seen TTT twice and going again this weekend. I also borrowed the FoTR dvd (not extended, but extra features one) just so I could see how the movie etc was made. I have the video so it's not quite the same.

I recognised PJ's kids but missed him. And just as a side note, can I say that the picture site posted before is amazing.

There are pretty much entirely distinct extras to the theatrical cut DVD and the extended cut DVD set.

The fact that KMart had 15% off today was the final nail in the decision coffin so I went and purchased the 4 disc extended DVD version. I think I'm running out of holiday days to watch it all though!

You won't regret it, it so much fun to watch. And listen to the commentries. So far, I 've listened to the cast commentary, and the Writer's one. Lots of interesting tid-bits and things pointed out. Plus I love the scenes that have been added back in - they really add to the story, I think.

Plus, more Legolas. Can't wait for an extended cut of the Two Towers.

Which picture site, Joasia?

Edited to add:

There's a version of the Hobbit being staged at the Theatre Royal here in Nottingham, around April time, if anyones up for a Fugee excursion. I'm planning to go see it anyay (as are my parents) but if there are more people we can make an event of it.

Heatherbelle, in the link that was broken (sounds like the shards of Narsil to me), in the last couple of posts, you'll find the link Joasia is talking about.

Have purchased the soundtrack to TTT - wonderful.

This one? Cos, that's the one I posted. Lots and lots of pretty pictures.

Dad got the TTT for Christmas, it is marvellous. I'd love to sit and listen to all three back to back when ROTK is out.

You're not wrong about the pictures.

I listened to FOTR and TTT back to back last night - magical. Howard Shore did an amazing job with the score.

Ooh, I'd quite like to see The Hobbit. Who's in it?

not the foggiest at the moment. Lemme see what I can find.

ETA: The Theatre Royal website is here, but no cast details appear to be on line. Will have a look on Saturday, when I have to walk past the place to get to work (now that stupid bosses won't let us park at work).

ETA (again)here's the Tour's website.

5 Disc Set on special.

Aussie based site.

Ahh, that's the 5th disk. I already have it. Saved me rushing out to buy the collector's edition.

If, however, my family were to get that edition for me for my birthday, I wouldn't be pushing the gift away.

Yes, Heatherbelle, it was the Shire site...Ooo, what treasures did I find..the pics are wow...I joined and am now exploring all the have..hehe

I'm going shopping later and I'll be sooo tempted to buy the dvd and cd..so much for saving.

Spent a very lovely afternoon on the couch enjoying the "Play All" feature on the 4th disc. Just so much incredible and entertaining information.

I went to see TTT again last weekend, and I was surprised to find that I actually enjoyed it even more than the first time. Largely due, I think, to my having accepted the filmic (is that a word?) changes and so keeping my nit-picking hat off (apologies for unfortunate metaphor). Plus, I was with some amazingly enthusiastic friends who were just as excited as I was, which always helps.

Hee. I am the only one of them that has the Legolas cover version of Empire.

Anyway, I now have a couple of theories about why the various changes from the book were made, that I'd like to submit to the jury. The lamer of the two regards the elves appearing at Helm's Deep - this, I contend, is so that the tagline of the computer game, "You will unite. Or you will die" makes sense. Really, there isn't much uniting going on in the books - what do the elves contribute, apart from Legolas, a big flag and some tree planting when it's all over? Expect to see a big contingent of dwarves appear at the Pelennor Fields in the next film ....

More seriously, I still think Faramir got a really raw deal out of the film (I'll be interested to see if anything more is made of his dilemma in the longer dvd version, if I even have a dvd player by 2004 *sigh*).

But I'll be happier about this if .... I'm going to spoiler tag this next bit as it contains speculation about what might or might not be in RoTK (based only on my own thoughts about the book and no actual knowledge whatsoever):


[spoiler] if the whole trip to Osgiliath is used in the next film to explain why the armies at Minas Tirith have to mount their suicidal attack on Mordor to prevent Sauron from noticing the Ring Bearer. In the book there's discussion - largely exposition from Gandalf - about why Sauron has to be made to think that the attacking army has the Ring, and that ultimately it will destroy the alliance from within. In the film it might be easier to explain this by showing, as they did in TTT, that Sauron knows that the allies have the Ring in Osgiliath - his assumption that they will then attack him with it is a bit easier to follow.
[spoiler]


Any thoughts?

Captions to a bootleg Lord of the Rings. Damn funny even if you aren't hugely into the series, and they get better (or worse) as they go along. Haven't had that much of a challenge to my work composure in many moons.

Mirren, there's nothing showing up for me in that spoilerfont.

kmm56, you actually have to click on the words "Click for Spoiler:" to see spoilers now - part of the upgrade.

Edited to remove my Easter Eggs comments, because I went back and read the old thread this morning (mainly to see what everyones reactions were to the extended DVD movie cause I watched it yesterday) and I found that the eggs had already been talked about at length.

Doh!!

Oh. Huh. See, this is what happens when they *change* things!

Anyway, a point about the Osgiliath scene that someone else made to me - assuming the Nazgul did figure out that that was the Ring ("huh. A hobbit. A ring. Could that be important? Oh, damn, I got schmutz on my cloak!") then Sauron will have every reason to assume the Ring went to Gondor. Which is where the story was supposed to be anyway.

So, in other words, I agree with Mirren.

Except more lucidly and in fewer words!

Just been to see it again and I also enjoyed it (even) more this time. Not so much because of less nitpicking, since I don't care about the changes to the book, but I think I was able to relax more - it's such a tense story, but having seen it through once, I could let myself breathe a bit more. This time the main thing that came through for me was the awfulness of the siege and the sadness of how much sacrifice is involved - not just those who fall at Helm's Deep, but the death vision of Arwen, the Ents going to their doom, etc.

I still don't see why Eowyn and other able-bodied women didn't fight there; surely they'd have been better than those little boys? And, while I assumed that the Nazgul knew exactly what they were being offered, I think it was awful good of them to just go away when Sam changed Frodo's mind. I'm looking forward to seeing Minas Tirith.

People were giggling at Gollum a lot. It was kind of weird.

I felt exactly like that in my second viewing, Mirren. Plus I had a quieter cinema. Always good.

Things I liked:

Orlando Bloom as Legolas. The casting generally. Too cool. Legolas and Gimli's relationship (shut up!)becoming ,more visible. I wasn't really thrilled that Gimli became the comic relief, but it did put a nice, playful spin on the relationships between Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. There's probably not as much to laugh at in the books; I think we might have drowned in dour, warrior-type bonds before we'd managed to get through all the Rohan material in the film.

Not as subtle as it could have been, but I liked the psychological aspect of the ring, as per Frodo and Gollum. I liked that it was reigned in with Gollum at the end, when both audiences I saw the film with almost visibly snapped out of snickering at Gollum when he (both hes) decided to kill the hobbits. The rift between Sam and Frodo, then Frodo siding with Gollum, Sam's reaction to this, etc. I'm glad that Peter Jackson et al decided to point out to the audience that, given long enough, Frodo could become Gollum. I need to see it again - I don't quite remember the exact context, but in Galadriel's mindmeld with Elrond, she expositioned that the "quest would claim [Frodo's] life" or something. I'm happy that's in there, because I think one of my favourite parts of the book is the Frodo is irreversibly changed by his experiences. It breaks my wee heart to see him back in the Shire.

OK, this post is too long. I'm seeing it again tomorrow, so I'll come back and gush some more then.

Hee. I saw it for the third time two nights ago. Still wowed. Noticed PJ this time around and nudged my friend, a little too hard, in happiness. I thought the rain in the Helm's Deep battle was a perfect addition because it showed just how futile their stand appeared at that time. Again, I didn't have any major problem with the changes made, mainly because I thought they were handled quite well.

Also managed to finish the ROtK book. Very very eager to see where they go with it.

Bought the TTT soundtrack too and been driving family crazy with it. A little obssessed? I say not. Now all I have to do is save enough to get the extended dvd version of the first part.

Does this mean I'll have to organise a RingThing at my place to sell you on the wonder that is the extended DVD?

Saw it for the 4th time - not sure whether that's something to be proud of, or whether people will point at me and laugh. A little of both, I suspect.

See, I think I'm going to have to disagree with you there, Kiryn. I love seeing a just-out film in a packed cinema - especially one like TTT where pretty much everyone there is desperate to see it, and has been looking forward to it for months, at least. (Of course the corollary to this is the palpable air of disappointment if the film doesn't live up to the audience's expectations: The Phantom Menace, I'm looking at you.)

I just love the opening moments, when "New Line" comes up on the screen, and some people start yelling and whistling, and then others start shushing loudly, then there's complete silence as the film begins.

If, on the other hand, you're talking about the badly behaved, giggly and chatty audience, rather than the fanatic audience, I'm completely with you.

If they had, it would've been harder to explain Eowyn with the cross-dressing later, I think. Though they've already blunted that moment by already showing us her swinging a sword.

Yeah, I had a vague awareness that she does actually fight later. However, I think that it would be better somehow if she fought in this battle; after all, this is THE one for her people, even if the war has just started etc etc. I suppose it depends on whether they're able to show how frustrated hiding in the caves was for her.

Kind o/t ish, but I read somwhere that Orlando Bloom's going to be in 'Troy' - as in a story of the 'Fall of Troy', as Paris. Seems to to enjoy epic stories perhaps?

Still haven't got to see TTT again yet. I will though gooshdarnit.

I understand that the movie is allowed to differ from the book but the Osgiliath part still doesn't make any sense to me.



My interpretation of this has always been that Sauron knew from Gollum that the ring had been found and that it was in the possession of a Hobbit, thus the raids on the Shire forcing Frodo to flee. As to where he thinks the Ring is following this I think the most important event is when Merry or Pippin (I'm always getting the two confused, even more so in the movie) retrieves and then later looks into the Palantir that Wormtongue throws down from Isengard. From that point onwards I think Sauron believes that the Ring is on it's way to Gondor and thus when the armies march from Gondor to Mordor Sauron will assume that the Ring is with them.

Yep, it's Pippin. Which scores him a ride on Shadowfax with Gandalf, much to Merry's disappointment.

The Osgiliath stuff didn't make sense as a dramatic change. The others I can live with, sorta.

And if I forget for a nanosecond that I ever read the book, the whole thing just rocks.

I find it really difficult to think of Sauron having actual plans and thoughts, if you see what I mean. He's just a big glob of evil to me, undirected, mindless evil. I'm sure that's not how it's supposed to come across, but I have trouble visualising him as an actual being.

In the film Gollum, while being tourtured, tells Sauron about the Shire and Baggins.

Pandrea, that's where I think having read The Silmarillion really helps. Because you're aware of Sauron's genesis and his background and the way his physical form has degenerated, the fact that he now cannot take physical form and his being is dispersed makes sense.

Really? I never managed to read that one. Maybe I'll give it a try sometime.

Oddly, I can grasp Voldemort being incorporeal but individual easily enough.

Pandrea, it really is worth the effort if you're interested in what lies behind LOTR. The sheer depth and scope of Tolkien's imagination really shines through. The language can be a bit difficult at first - the best comparison I can give is that it's quite biblical in tone, but nothing matches it for imagination. I find it interesting that after watching TTT for the first time, I was drawn to re-read The Silmarillion rather than LOTR, but it gives a texture to LOTR that is quite incredible.

Can you tell I love The Silmarillion?

Not at all.

The Silmarillion is fantastic. Beware that it is not really a novel and more of a history book. I could read the sections from the coming of the elves through the coming of men upto the war of the Ring over and over and over without being bored. Actually I could and have read all of it over and over and over again with being bored :)

It's all so tragic and doom-ladened. Love it.

AA, a viewing session is in order, me thinks. Or we could just pause everytime Viggo comes on screen and giggle, like last time. It still brings a smile to my face.

Gandalf also states at some point that Sauron wouldn't be able to imagine that anyone would try and destroy the ring - he would assume that any strong warrior would try and claim it for their own. Having seen Pippin in the palantir, he then sees Aragorn and so thinks that Aragorn has taken it from the hobbits.

I agree, the episode in Osgiliath isn't needed to explain
that.

Though why, given all this, Sauron specifically asks his border guards to look for trinkets and rings on anyone they capture trying to get into Mordor, I do not know.

Bought the extended dvd today. Have been eyeing the nice, pretty box for the last couple of hours since it's right in front of me on my desk. I have to wait until the tv is free later before I can even begin to start watching it. Oh Dear, tomorrow is my day off and I already have the whole planned/set aside for my viewind pleasure.

Trying to get through the Appendices in ROtK. Very very interesting. I like the fact that bits here have been included in the films.

The Silmarillion is really the *mythology* of Middle-Earth. It's more like reading things like Beowulf or Bulfinch's Greek Myths than like reading a history or a novel. When Tolkien wasn't creating worlds he was a philologist and studied Beowulf and the Norse Eddas, among others. The Silmarillion is a varied thing, with dry bits that read like the appendices to LotR, mixed with poetry and adventure.

Speaking of which, I don't recall whether this was posted here before, but Tolkien's couple-thousand-page manuscript of his translation and commentary on Beowulf was discovered a few years back and is going to be published later this year. Whee! His lecture on the subject was instrumental in changing the perception of Beowulf: from poor history to excellent myth.

I wonder if Seamus Heaney is miffed.

I love Heaney's Beowulf. Has Tolkein's translation not been available before?

I think the translation has but not the comentary that goes with it.

Some parts of the commentary have been, but not the whole thing. I think it forms part of his work On Fairytales (something like that, my copy is at home).

Oh, that's in Tree and Leaf isn't it. I'll have to have a look at it again, I haven't even opened it in ages.

Now, this is a bit off-topic but it's something I've often wondered. I've seen so many homages and take-offs of Beowulf in American TV shows, that I assume it must be a fairly standard text in US schools or at least colleges? Whereas, certainly when I went to school, it really wasn't - we were more likely to get The Canterbury Tales. I didn't come across Beowulf till 3rd year of uni in English Language and it wasn't a requirement. Is it just me, did everyone else get this story at an early age?

I have never read it and it certainly wasn't on the curriculum at secondary school. Like you we did The Cantebury Tales, though.

Okay, I've done my research now, and I can inform you that the Beowulf essay, in part, has been published before. It's called (if it's the same thing, and I think it is) Beowulf: The Monsters & The Critics . There's an accompanying article called On Translating Beowulf. I have them in a collection of Tolkien essays which includes On Fairy-Stories, which I also have in another collection which has Leaf by Niggle in it.

Returning you now to your regular programming.