Woo-friggin-hoo, that was one awesome episode. Although I was spoiled as spoiled could be, it has been so long since I read all the wildfeeds and comments, that I had forgotten most things.

Beej's loves and loathes.

Loves

* That teaser! So beautifully shot
* Fight scene with Connor, Gunn & Fred was unreal
* More Angel biting Cordy, less Angel kissing Cordy
* Rrrrroooowwrrrr Wesley
* Just how many times did they make fun of Angels hair?
* Most shocking hallucination - Angel snapping Connors neck. Blooooody Hell.
* Excellent makeup on DB
* Lorne is da man
* Whoah, go Lilah!

Loathes

* Lilah & Wesley getting dressed straight away after sex. Eewwwwwwwwww
* Gunn, honey, shave - at least we know now where Tonys (24) chin fluff went
* I wish they would get some consistency on the vampire strength/skill thing
* The use of the "C" word
* Me - I found myself liking Fred in this episode. What is wrong with me?

Favourite Lines

Lorne: "You wanna bitch-slap sour-puss over there for practice? I'm your cheering section."

Angel: "So - how was your summer? Mine was fun. Saw some fish. Went mad with hunger. Hallucinated a whole bunch."

Angel: "What you did to me - was unbelievable, Connor. - But then I got stuck in a hell dimension by my girlfriend one time for a hundred years, so three months under the ocean actually gave me perspective. <snip> (Angel moves to stand in front of Connor) I love you, Connor. (Quietly, after a beat) Now get out of my house."


An excellent start to the season. And I believe it only gets better...

Damn, does it get better.

BJC, you know you can always post in the episode-specific topic. We don't have as much activity in the Angel area as we do in the Buffy. And I find that it's nice to be able to look back at what other people have said about the same episode and put it in context, and to revisit old issues.

Yeah, I know, I debated which way to go, but this is how we do the Aussie Buffy discussion, so I thought I'd replicate it for the Angel discussion as well.

Sure, it's your choice. But it can get lonely here in Angel land, so I thought we might huddle up for warmth. I know Pandrea opts for the episode topics once she catches up.

I can't wait for the episdoe seems so long since we last saw Angel here in Oz. Still I'm really glad Angel is on Wednesday couldn't take missing it for TWW.

Josh, Toby, Leo v's Angel, Wesley, Lorne
and
CJ v's Cordy

Oh the delema.

Oh, another addition to my loath list: the new credits. They got rid of my favourite shot - Angel crashing through the doors in The Bachelor Party.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I know its season one but its just so good.

Yeah, but (she said, butting in) the thing is I'm not watching them at the same time as the rest of the UK crew - thanks to kind people with VCRs - so I can't post in the country topic. Whatever works!

Ok saw Angel last night - not happy about the opening credits changes. Loved Fred - good to see they haven't forgoten that she is a bit crazy. Wes - Wow. loved most of it - except when Connor was on the screen - I just don't like him and I don't love to hate him like Lilah - plus its been three months Gunn grew a goate but no one gave Connor a hair cut?

Also I want Lorne's blue coat : )

I love Lorne. He is my favourite ME character.

I watched it, I watched it. I was conofused as hell for most of it, having literally missed all the last season. Sure from time to time, I'd heard stuff about it but it was a very odd experience watching it.

Would one of you please be able to give me a run down of what's been happening? visual aids are most welcome.

I use Santuary as my episdoe guide and they have a summary of each past season

it's at Santuary

I'm impressed that you made it is far without having seen last year.

Okay, MC - get outta my head!!

Sanctuary is my favourite Angel site!! Its very well put together.

Joasia, let us know if you need anything further explained.

Thank you guys. Like I've said before, I used to adore this show and Buffy until prolly the last season of each - now that I'm not as crazy about them anymore, I have been able to come back and I think I'll enjoy watching them occasionally. I need to catch up first though.

Joasia, I've heard (and seen to a certain extent) that this Season of Angel rocks the casbah and Buffy Season Seven is an improvement over previous season(s) as well.

That's why I'm prepared to give them both a go again. I haven't seen Buffy yet but I had it taped for me and so that's what I'll be doing tonite.

Wow I'm not sure what to say. We've been doing this a few times this week : )

I'd also like to add it how disapointed I was to see that the 'Thank you, thank very much' was gone from the closeing credits - not happy Jan.

Yeah, that's because David Greenwalt has left the production team.

I guessed that was the resson. Doesn't mean I have to like it - it was a nice touch like "grr ahh" - we need a new thing to end on.

A really strong opening episode. I don't think I've ever been a huge Angel fan - but it was still very enjoyable.

I'm still dubious about Connor, and definitely more dubious about Cordy/Angel - it just feels wrong and yuck.

I too liked Fred in this ep - more fighting, and loved her reaction to finding out about Connor drowning Angel.

Lilah - for some reason, I thought she looked strange in this episode, but the beheading was very cool and unexpected.

As for Wesley, I can't figure him out. What was his motive for rescuing Angel?

It was the lack of makeup & messy hair. That "just had a shag" look.



Hmmm, tricky one. He may not want to be part of the team but I think he realises that the world is a better/safer place with Angel *in* it (oooh, Amends) and he (Wesley) still has a sense of duty.

That's what I thought too, but later on at the W&H office, she still looked strange. Maybe it's just me.

Interesting theory regarding Wesley. I just find it funny to compare him now to when he first emerged on Buffy as her new watcher. I like him better now, but have decided that after watching earlier Buffy eps, I don't like the development of Cordy's character.

I don't think anybody does! Give me Sunnydale High/1st Season Cordy any day.

Re: Lilahs look. Maybe it was a subtle way of demonstrating even though she looks like crap & seems to be on her way out - she still and will ultimately have all the power.

Oh good - I didn't realise that the opposition of new Saint/I'm in love with Angel Cordy was wider spread.

Re Lilah - all the power is the right statement. What was that beheading contraption that she used? May have to rewatch that more closely. What's up with all these beheadings though? Not so out of place in Buffy and Angel, but also in 24. Next thing you know, an unfavoured Republican will have his head chopped off in TWW.

I'm curious as to why Andy Hallet hasn't made the opening credits yet, but is still special guest star - is that similar to Amber Benson?

And the person weilding the chop - Roger Tribbey.



Patience little grasshopper. And no, the situation is not similar to Amber.

Well, you're half right.

Don't mind me, I'm just the one over in the corner beating my head against the wall.

I think Wesley saved Angel for the duty reasons, yes, but more because he still cares deeply about him.

Okay, Beej - if you say so.

ejg25 - so Buffy, not so good?

I've always been a big Angel/Cordy fan - well since Angel the series started. I really buy their relationship probably becuase its developed through a friendship first. I was a big Buffy/Angel shipper at one time but there was just too much anst and torture and Buffy being a whiny bitch. (Sorry that's a different rant about Faith and Buffy)


Plus Buffy always looked like a teenager and CC doesn't any more she and Angel now look about the same age (which the actors are) and she's about the right hight so atheticaly they look better to me.

See, I haven't been able to get into the whole Cordy/Angel thing coz I'm just a B/A shipper at heart and always will be. I loved them together. That said, I like Cordy as a character in her own right though she can be a tad spacey. Wesley, I adore. Haven't really had a lot of time to get used to Fred/Gunn, but don't mind them too much so far. Conner however throws me, coz it's just like "oh sh*t, Angel had a kid!!". With time, I'm sure I'll come around, but atm, I'm baffled.

DITTO!! Buffy & Angel 4 EVA!

Heh, sorry had to do it. :-)

These are just my thoughts I mean no disrespect to anyone who loves B/A but I just want to explain where I am comming from. I know there is a lot of hostility between B/A and C/A and I don't want to get into that.

See I'm totally over B/A - in fact I'm not sure some times if I like Buffy at all. There is moment in Sanctuary (or is it 5 by 5 I always get them mixted up) where the character just lost me. She was a brat and I really hated the fact that Angel when and apologised to her.

I also can't actually see them being able to get back together again too much has happened and certainly Angel has developed a long way from who he was then.

I'm with MC in that I definitely don't see B/A getting back together - too much has happened, and on their separate shows, both characters have developed differently. I read somewhere that having B/A reunite for the ending of Buffy was an option, but I don't think that would be a good idea.

On the other hand, I also don't see C/A - I think despite Cordy's developments, I still can't see past the shallow/bitchy Cordy from Buffy. That Cordy and the Cordy now can't mesh in my mind, and seeing C/A kiss still doesn't sit well with me.

Valid points all, but for me, the sheer chemistry between Buffy/Angel/SMG/DB will always reign supreme.

True - they do have fantastic chemistry - I still cry when I watch "I Will Remember You".

BTW - Beej - lucky you, meeting JM and having photos as well. I'm surprised they aren't on your Buffy shrine.

Oh they are, up on the wall above and to the left of the shrine. The whole *room* is a Buffy shrine.

I'm also feeling a bit Lorne green when I think about all the people Beej has met.

As for chemestry that's in the eye of the beholder- I think that C/A have got it more than B/A ever did but that's probably in part cause I can more easily subsitue myself for Cordy than Buffy : )

Heh - speaking of Lorne green, I thought he was looking especially bright green on the premiere ep the other day. Sorta like how Willlow's hair was also looking especially red on Tuesday's episode.

He was - I thought it was jsut the lighting combined with the blue coat or something? I know they changed his make up at some point but I thought it was last season.

By the way he's another hottie without the make up.

OH YEAH!

Now, Beej, don't taunt people, it's tacky.

I didn't get to that event *humph*

I did get my picture with JM though. I tucked under his arm, *sigh* And he complemented my t-shirt.

And did I mention how I got him to recite Shakespeare?

I hate you both... I think I'm going to be perminently this shade of green.

Lucky lucky pple. The only one I'ver met is AH when she was in Aus a couple of years back at Grace Bros - got a photo and everything - but it was just like "Hi, you're great". hehe..

Wow, Beej - is there anyone from B/A that you haven't met? I feel like I could just say any name, and the next minute there'll be a link to a photo with you and that person arm in arm!

Oh there are plenty I still haven't met. David, Alexis...mmm Scrufy!Evil!Wesley.

I think the green is begining to fade - would have been too unbearable if you'd met DB and AD as well. : )

I'm hoping that Alexis will be one of the guests at the Buffy convention in May (they have already said that David won't be one of them).

I guess he'd rather be a home playing with his son than meeting fans.

May that shouldn't clash with the big wedding will it?

Doesn't matter. Its not any of the Angel cast. VIP Guest is Emma Caulfield. Whom I have already met. Bugger. Now I need to decide if I want to go or not.

Hot Damn that was a corker of an episode!! Loved it! Except for the Angel loving Cordy parts.

Loves

* How they filmed the 1985 stuff, to give it that "technology wasn't as good in the 80's" look.
* Dinza was the best monster I've seen on Angel in a looongggg time. Very well done demon.
* Fred's flip charts VS Angels sketches. Heh.
* The scene between Angel and Lilah - they always play well off each other.
* Fred's freak out was well acted, but damn - Amy - eat something.
* Niiiicceeee graphic of Angel's heart restarting.

Loathes

* Bleck - the C word again.
* Gwen was, well, I guess she was okay.
* Why did Gwen and Angel kiss?
* No Lorne :-(

Favourite lines

Angel: What should I do then, send her a gift, sacrifice, unholy fruit basket?

Gunn: Yeah, but if it's just an auction house, can't we just Ebay it? How much is it?
Angel and Fred: Thirty-three million dollars.
Gunn: (coughing) I think my lungs have coffee.
Fred: I'm still working on a plan but, so far… It involves being sent to prison and becoming someone's bitch.

Heh - a WW line can really be applied to a scene in the episode. "Are you taking them or are you just carrying them around in your pocket?"