Yay! That was great! For the first time ever, a Gunn-centric episode that was actually good! Ok, so the plot was totally predictable, but Gunn! In a suit! With sassy pretty Gwen! I love it! Yay! See what happens when you take people away from Fred? See? Now keep her claws off my Wesley and my Willow and we're 5X5.

I'm quoting myself from the Ground State thread, because I can:

Oh yeah. I'm good.

Aw, poor guy. I understand why he thinks he's just the muscle, and the comment from Angel didn't help, but...they love him. He isn't their muscle, he's their friend.

That last scene was great. Hee. Magic 8 Ball. I really hope that Connor is the one who figured it all out and clued everyone in. And is it just me or did Angel look unbelievably gorgeous in that shot when the lights turned on and Cordy saw him? Actually, I thought he looked great the whole ep, and I'm glad to have him back. Angelus was such a putz.

Wesley's face when Angel told him the truth about Lilah, oh man...give that man an emmy. And he loved her! Take that Fred. Stupid Fred.

So overall, in itself, I really enjoyed it, but I can't pretend to not be pissed at Angel continuing to refer to the things "Angelus" did, (I gesticulated wildly everytime he did it, almost knocked out my sister-in-law) and to the fact that the entire Angelus storyline went nowhere, had no repercussions, and meant nothing. Gah. Fucking waste.

Yay Gunn! Yummy Gunn! With Gwen!

I have to say, after that one continous storyline for 9 straight episodes, they managed to pull off a fun one-off without losing any momentum. In fact, I felt this one was a great fun little breather, something desperately needed. Very nice.

I really liked this episode a lot!

The contrast of seeing season 1 cordy vs season now cordy is pretty weird. Fred and Wesley's conversation was interesting to see the awkwardness between them, and Fred's realization about what Wesley and Lilah's relationship was all about was.

Hee, easybake oven. Gwen getting smacked by lightening was amusing to me for some reason. Gwen picking Gunn was pretty amusing. The look on Angel's face was great, and Gunn's grin in reaction was priceless. Gunn calling this season a weird soap opera was priceless.

"I am not a buckethead" How cute Lorne looked in the cloak with his little blonde hair and the horns on his head. The cordy set up was pretty freakin cool, but where are all her powers now?

Thats all I can process for now.

Heh. I pretty much agree with SNeaker, except I want Fred and Wesley to end up together. But me oh my do Gunn and Gwen sizzle together.

I wouldn't mind if Connor figured it out, that'd be cool for his character and consistent with his calling Cordelia on sending him to kill Angel. On the other hand, I think I'd like it if it had been the result of actual communication and comparing notes among the others.

The only thing that could have made this ep better would have been if it took place two episodes ago, and Gwen ended up having sex with Faith instead.

I liked it. Plus, go BOOM! *giggles*

Big badda boom.

And yes, they do sizzle quite well Claudia. :)

Damn. Gunn has purdy eyes...

I agree. Between Gunn and Wesley, I was having a hard time not drooling. I thought they both looked amazing.

I agree that this was a nice little breather episode that was fun, moved the major storyline forward a little and focused on a character that has been ignored lately.

I think the MoGs found out about Cordelia one of three ways:

(1) Connor was suspicious of Cordelia based on her instructions to kill Angel and her statement that she would need to call on Connor again in the future. He went to Angel and Angel had the little text reading set-up to see if Cordelia would make a move. Her little attempt to spill coffee over the text gave her away; or

(2) Angel correctly wrote down the proper text from the book and Wesley pretended that he had screwed up the text so that they could take time to plan; or

(3) Lorne already had his psychic abilities back when he walked in the door and pretended otherwise when sensing the black evil that is currently growing inside of Cordelia.

I'm wondering if (1) is possible since Connor wasn't there. If he had correctly guessed wouldn't he have also been there? I also can't remember and I don't tape but was Cordy there when Angel told everyone that he was not the one to kill Lilah? If she wasn't, perhaps Cordelia referencing the fact that the Master of the Beast killed Lilah was what gave her away.

It'll be interesting to see what fall-out there is (if any) with the Gunn/Electra hook-up. Gunn and Fred are not back together, are they? It also seems as if Wesley has backed off from Fred. Hmm. This does all sound relatively soap-opera-ish.

After the horror that was last night's Buffy, I was so glad that I was able to like something coming out of the ME factory.

Well, I haven't seen this week's Buffy yet, so I have nothing to compare this to, but I thought it was excellent. I like the Gwen and Gunn possibilities, although I think it's odd that he would want to be with someone who set him up to be her chump. Poor Gunn. He can be bought for the price of a suit.

I thought the Fred and Wesley interaction was interesting. They had that awkward and incredibly realistic conversation. Miss Pancake Kisses you aren't ready for that man. On the other hand, all of their other scenes together were pretty relaxed and they seemed to be back in their brainiac translator niches.

I'm not sure that Connor was part of the Cordy unmasking. I'm sure that he's suspicious, but I think he'll try to rationalize it because no one likes to admit- even to himself- that he's being used. I predict that he will try to protect her, and that Angel will have to have one of those "deep down, you know it" conversations as they fight.

I think this is another case of Angel being smarter than I usually give him credit for. I think he knew something was up the moment Cordy stepped into the room. Almost everything he said or did in her presence was another trick to try to trip her up. I think he was putting it all together when the others were talking in the lobby and all of the comments about cheesy voices and how sloppy the Beast was and the translation thing were just used to confirm it.

Or maybe I'm wrong and in the next ep, Connor will step out of the shadows with that accusatory glare he does so well. (Accusatory glare or helpless and angry realization? He does them both well.)

I think that the 8 Ball should have said "All signs point to yes," though. It's the Magic 8 Ball phrase.

Edited to add that Cordelia wasn't there when Angel was talking about Lilah. It was just Wesely, Fred and Gunn at that point. Both Connor and Cordy were elsewhere.

I actually thought this was one of the weaker episodes of the season. That being said, this year even a weak episode of AtS rocks solid. At least Gunn got a chance to play it up, show what he can do (even though he's too easily duped), display believable attraction, and he wasn't being whiny or bitchy. Plus he and Gwen were just purdy all gussied up. I'm going to be depressed for months if this show isn't renewed somewhere.

I loved the Cordevil set up at the end, though I'm itching to know who figured it out and when. Maybe Angel did suspect something was very wrong the moment Cordevil skanked down the stairs, or maybe it was when they were all trying to decipher the language, or Lorne's empathic abilities were already restored when he walked back into the hotel. Any or all of those scenarios are viable candidates, as is the possibility that Connor went to Angel with his suspicions. But he wasn't with the gang at the end, and I was hoping he would be. It was good to see that he was starting to question Cordevil, but who knows how far that went. I hope they clue us in next week, but I am gratified that they didn't drag the whole thing out any longer too.

There's just something about Alexis Denisof holding a shot gun - every time he does, *growwwwwwwwwwl*. Damn sexy!

Angel brought the *awww* when he told Wes that Angelus didn't kill Lilah, but that he was still sorry for munching on her, and recognized that Lilah's death was a loss for Wesley. I think everyone realizes there was something between Wes and Lilah, except Fred who doesn't want to see it. Their conversation was a good one and Fred was quietly put in her place for trying to write off the whole thing between Wes and Lilah as an abberation. My wish is that Wes is starting to recognize that his crush for Fred is just that and nothing more. What with Gunn becoming attracted to Gwen now, I'd love to see an end to all inter-MOG relations. Everyone would be better off for it - unless, of course, they decide to resurrect the hoYay, in which case, let the relations commence! >;D

All in all, not great, but still a lot of fun.

You know on The Simpsons (mostly the later seasons), when someone is on a motorbike 'cause they're trying to be all butch and whatnot? Or, better yet, y'all remember the episode where Homer voices Poochie The Dog on Itchy And Scratchy and he has this scene where he skateboards and spews out all these 'cool', 'hip' catchphrases and slang words? You know that standard eighties guitar riff that always plays for scenes like that?

That's what I hear whenever Wes pulls out the artillery.

Um, also? I really liked this ep. Fast paced, good lines, eye candy, Gunn's eyes, one person or more being quite sharp in figuring out the whole Beast Master (snerk) thing, realizing along with Gunn that fighting off puny humans must be a cakewalk by now, Gunn's eyes...

Good show all around. Thing is, I'm not sure whether I want the MoG to have figured it all out on their own or whether I'd prefer having Connor fight through his naive sensibilities and hostilities. In the sense that he would have both mistrusted Cordelia without her easily convincing him otherwise and told the others of his suspicions. He would've, you know, communicated.

At any rate, that's what I love about this show. I can't wait 'til next week! Every week!

That was nice. I didn't realize it, but, like Gunn, I was in need of a break from the major arc. It was nice and refreshing to get different characters at the fore (yay for Gunn getting a little... plot, that is) and different scenarios and costumes. And Gwen is always enjoyable; I hope they keep using her in small doses.

Also, I'm glad that Connor and the others finally bought a clue. I don't get the Magic Eight Ball thing — where did it come from, and was it mystical or something?

My bets are on Connor blowing the whistle, or Angel knowing something was up the minute Cordelia revealed her pregnancy. Angel was awfully stern during her whole speech.

Actually, now that he's back, Angel is a little too stern and growly for my taste. Angelus was sexier. But he's not feeling guilty, so it's all good.



I think Gunn would have a better view of how the Angel gang sees him if he hadn't severed his ties with Wesley, one true friend he had who really bonded with and paid attention to him.

I wish I could fully appreciate Gunn's eyes. My WB feed has long been like muddy mud. I fear I'm missing the finer nuances of Wesley's expressions, too.



As opposed to the black evil that is currently growing on the outside of Cordelia?

Maybe the hair is a physical manifestation of the squirmy, many-limbed thing currently growing inside of Cordelia. At this point, I have no problem blaming everything about Cordelia that doesn't work on her wicked spawn.

I thought the Magic 8-ball was kind of a throw-away joke. Wasn't Lorne using it as a prop in his faux-cleansing-awakening of psychic abilities. Why not take the pregnant (hee) pause while Cordelia takes in that her goose is duly cooked and make a joke because Magic 8-ball jokes are always funny. Aren't they?

Yeah, it was a joke. She thought he had some fancy mystical do-hickey to get his empath powers back, but really all he had was a magic 8 ball because it was all a ruse.

I find stern growly Angel about a thousand times sexier than over-the-top Angelus (although, sensual leather pants Evil Angel from Buffy is still #1.) In fact, this episode was the first time I was seriously attracted to Angel since before Pylea.

I meant the clothes, mj. Oh, the horror.

Oops! I guess we have differing opinions on what constitutes external growing black evil. But I still blame them all on the spawn.

Heh. I think it's funny that everyone seemed to like this ep and yet it's the shortest thread. Like we can only fill them up more with complaints.

Well, I don't really have any, that was really good. A good Gunn episode, my stars. Damn, that man is handsome. As well as telling us that he was having fun, you could see him (or JAR) really enjoying himself with all the Bond stuff. He was so delighted to be chosen and put first (which, of course, Fred didn't ultimately do) and that and the part about being the muscle was touching. I think they (Angel & co, and also the show as a whole) do treat him that way too often and it's good to be reminded that he is a smart and resourceful guy who used to run his own outfit. Let's hope we see more of him like this.

And it was a really, really nice suit. I did think it was a little off that he didn't mind Gwen using him, but once he realised how desperate she was, I think any resentment just left him. It was a nice touch that Gwen felt she couldn't go and say "I'm in need, please help me" but thought she had to say "An innocent child is in need, please help her". And I liked how her usual confident, cocky persona went and she became nervous when she realised that yeah, they were so going to have sex. Lucky girl, getting to have her first time with Gunn, I must say. The bit with him stroking her back was .... ooooh.


Oh God, yes. Although Angelus describing hearing Fred and Gunn having noisy sex does make me give her a little benefit of the doubt. Hmm, Fred's reaction to Gwen is going to be interesting. She swithered over two men only to lose both of them and have them find compensations pretty quickly.

The moment between Angel and Wesley about Lilah was lovely. It's like Angel kind of learned something from his dream or from being Angelus again and he's trying to handle things better.

The shock finish surprised me completely, I thought she was going to put some sort of mojo onto Lorne or even attack him (given that he's the one character who could survive a beheading), so I loved the reveal. It was shot very nicely, the framing or whatever looked good.

Mr M, looking up from his paper: "So ... has Cordelia been secretly evil ever since she was in High School?".

I liked this one. Though Gwen's red hair extensions are just annoying.

With this following Lies My Parents ..., it was certainly a night of hot and charming Mutant Enemy black guys, wasn't it? It's like they're trying to make up for all those years of all-white Sunnydale in one fell swoop.