Okay, so, of the bad: A Something Blue/The Hulk crossover? Oh-kay. Plus, these people should not be this stupid. (ANGEL: I do believe W&H may be trying to change us in a bad way! KMM: Gosh, you think? They're not *nice* evil world-destroying lawyers?)

But I laughed out loud, so that's all okay. Perky Spike amused me. Gunn peeing on Wesley rather than Fred amused me. Wesley wanting to jump Fred... annoyed me less than usual. Wesley dancing badly made me wonder wistfully whether they would have Angel dance too, but no.

I didn't care so much for this episode but I will agree with kmm that it had its amusing moments. Fred even made me laugh with her "You want a piece of me?" spiel to that one demon. I also loved that Lorne's office had a desk and a vanity.

However, I realized that it's hard to root for these guys anymore because they are basically defending evil people. Why are they doing that? It has yet to be explained in a way that I think makes sense given what we know about these characters. Why wouldn't they just chuck the whole client list away and use the resources that W&H has to help the innocent.

In trying to think like a really evil person, I also have to wonder why W&H even has a client list at this point. One of the reasons these guys hired W&H is because they were willing to do whatever had to be done to win the case. That is no longer the case here. In fact, one could say that their lawyer is actually working against their best interests so why keep that lawyer? They just kind of skate over these issues but they are becoming glaring problems as the season goes on. Because why would Angel and the rest of the gang (including Lorne) want to party with their clients? They don't like these guys. You were given the law firm, burn out the assets and then move on or try to build a normal clientele and use that to fund your "champion" activities. But this whole representing and caring about the evil clients makes it hard to care.

Although I do wish they really could bring Henry Fonda back to life.

Lorne and Harm have good chemistry. And of course they’d get along. They’re both sparkly and candy-colored, and Lorne’s always been gracious to good and evil alike. Although, as we see, he really wants to murder the evil. That was a good thing to learn.

“…which actually kind of burns.” Hee. And see? His hair is back to normal. Oh ye of little faith. It’s perfect right now. Not too long, not too short, not too pyramidal. Makes his face look jutting as of old. And we got more of an eyeful of him than in the last shower scene (boy, the team really is clean this year). My. He’s like an armored tank. Those risers that connect his shoulders to his neck in the back are a bit too much for my taste, though.

Wesley, in the brown jacket, drinking straight from the beer bottle… mmm. Mmm, this show is pretty.

Ooh, I dig Lorne’s office. It’s perfectly Lorne. Although I suspect that it’s also Wesley’s office… what do they think we were, born yesterday?

Angel uses brooding as an excuse to get private time — I love it. And I thought his concern for Lorne throughout the episode was touching. Lorne’s usually the support, but Angel does really pay attention and listen to his people.

I liked the sad Wesley and Fred scene, even if it included Wesley lusting after Fred and being jealous, things I don’t like in theory. Although, not for nothing, how does Fred look into Wesley’s squinty Pierce Brosnany eyes and then be attracted to Knox? He’s so sweet and handsome, and doesn’t know it, which is sweeter.

The insta-fog windows are cool, so much cooler than the stupid necro-tempered ones. Roberto Benigni! And let’s hear it for Alexis Denisof, delivering the exposition while drunk.

Okay, the guy with the spigot in his wrist. Surely came from the same source as the Burger Loa and the talky meat guy. That’s a good sign. Sometimes you feel like you’ve stumbled into Dante or the Decameron when you’re watching this show. When Lorne said, “You taste great,” the guy should have said, “I’m less filling.” Boreanaz’ eyes widening, priceless. The guy whose costume was a human was pretty far out, too. Gunn literally going alpha male on Angel, and Spike’s reaction. “I just think that’s bloody fabulous.” “Pee pee.” Wesley dancing. “You walk alone! You walk alone.” “You just peed on my shoe.” “Lorne told you to pee all over the office?” “Done and doner!” Wes lugging Fred everywhere. God, I adore this show. And this made me feel like this season is part of the whole. I hyperventilated, and I say this with some startlement, I almost threw up, I was laughing so hard… that’s the best party scene ever.

Who wrote this episode? To whose feet do I deliver the sacrifices? For a season that’s all wrong in premise, they’re doing it all right.

Well. That was embarassing.

Somewhere about halfway through, my mother (who is generally more positive than I am, mostly because she still thinks Spike is funny) looked at me with the most glazed expression I've ever seen and said: "This. Is the worst. Episode. Ever."

I still think Provider is the worst episode ever, but I think this one might get the prize for "most boring episode ever" and certainly "stupidest episode ever." Just stupid. Really dumb. Not remotely funny. And dumb. And slow. Rilly rilly dumb. This is what the famous Ben Edlund gives us? I'm deeply disappointed.

Why do they bother letting Wes keep the stubble? They might as well make him shave and put him back in glasses and banana plantation suits if he's gonna revert to Wussley mode. And while I was struck by how genuinely pretty Acker is, (it really is a shame about the voice- and the revolting character. I think I may have tolerated her if she'd been a mute) the mooning over Fred is just...gross. Both actors looked so bored with the effort of trying to maintain that drunkennes, I just wanted to yell "cut!"

Pee jokes? Have I stepped into a Rob Schneider movie? Because I swore I'd never.

Every week the intense ridiculousness of the premise gets hammered even further home. They need to keep morale up. For their evil law firm. Because no one's acting...evil enough? I'm lost. And Lorne had his...sleep taken? Yes, his sleep taken because the incredible pressure of...party planning...was getting to be too much. And...lack of sleep would help? ::blinks::

I may be woolly headed or something, but the idea of having sex under a mystical influence? Less "funny" more "a really unfunny and horrific violation." Just me?

Honestly, the only remotely un-awful thing about this season is how surprisingly endearing the character of Angel still is. Not enough to carry this shit though.

And because it has to be said: I know Something Blue. You sir, are no Something Blue. One more F to add to the pile. That's every episode this season so far. Think they can sustain it all the way through?

That was an odd episode. I liked it a lot though. The drinking the blood of that weird creature was very very icky, though. Since when does Lorne drink other creatures blood?

It was nice to see an episode about Lorne, but I hope we don't start getting into an episode about everyone. As others have said, the one-off is cool, but all the time is nutty.

I can see why they'd want to keep the firm up and all the clients. With no clients there is no money. With no money there is considerable less resources, which was the whole advantage of W & H in the first place. It would be nice to see them start to take on better clients, though. I like it better when our heros are more white than shades of grey.

Well, I enjoyed it and thought it was funny for all of the aforementioned reasons, but it felt really contrived and slight. It was more like a series of fun vignettes than a cohesive episode. And when Lorne realized that removing his sleep had caused all of these problems, I actually said, "Aw, don't worry, Lorne. Xander didn't face any recriminations, and his heedless mistake killed actual people, not demons."

"I proud of my honor roll student." Leatherface with a sense of humor.

Definitely a case of the parts being more than the whole.

Babe. Morrisey is more positive than you.

I think they've established almost convincingly that the reason they need to keep Wolfram & Hart's clients is so that they can keep tabs on them, and sort the bloody wheat from the chaff. They almost have me on that. There was that one comment that all this evil stuff was going on before, but Angel and company had no clue about it; now they have inside information on every horrible thing hidden in Wolfram & Hart. And while they are servicing some evil clientele, it's true that Angel keeps killing folks. In spite of the others' admonitions to tread more lightly, he's still eliminating the evil. As is Lorne's subconscious (with special sweeps guest appearance by Eric Bana).

I didn't figure out that something odd was going on until Wesley made the discovery about his beer. Angel and Eve was a little uncharacteristic and plenty annoying. But I wouldn't put it past Angel to have a one-nighter with some tart from the office, particularly right now. He's in a weird mood and he's clearly damaged from last year. There's this echo, this odd point-by-point re-creation of his beige period. He's not Beige Angel; he's Buff Angel.

It was only toward the end that I found some flaws: with the concept behind it all, which was a retread and was silly. But I don't mind and don't fault it, because anything that results in hilarity that bizarre is good by extension. Whatever created that, I'm happy with.

Reading Fox's critique in her livejournal made me think of something. During this episode, I got the first inkling of a feeling that this show actually was Angel, was the Season Five we were supposed to get after Season Four — not, as I've felt, that the WB executives hijacked the writers' room and ruined everything and set us on an alternate reality, but that this was almost entirely the year we were destined to get. Even during the glorious ride of Season Four, I knew that the darkness, despair, and anxiety (mine and the characters') could not and should not be sustained forever, and that the next year would have to be lighter and different.

I'm starting to think that Connor and Spike are the only things the WB is responsible for (while Cordelia fell victim to that boogeyman of long-running TV series, Real World Issues), while the taking-over-Wolfram-and-Hart concept is what the writers meant to do all along.

I felt embarassed for the writers, the actors, and myself while watching this. It felt like a string of "jokes" put together with baling wire and some sporadic superglue. While some of the stuff was funny, nothing resonated within me, and I have to struggle to remember the funny stuff at all. Seeing Angel with Eve made me to want to unwatch that part, though I'm not sure why I felt such a wiggins at that- perhaps it was the idea of Angel having sex with someone unworthy when sex has always been an issue for him as long as I've known the character.

It felt, well, soulless. I don't want to get too tired of this show, but I can feel it happening. I had a really stressful, exhausting, and tough week, and came home to a really crappy ep of Angel when I could have watched anything else the TiVo had for me. I know something's wrong when I see a show and think "maybe I should have watched that 'Karen Sisco' or 'K Street' episode instead."

I can’t get over “Lorne told you to pee all over the office?” Masterful delivery by Boreanaz. Such a comic talent.

Spike looks like he’s doing the Snoopy Dance. From the neck up, spitting image. Of Snoopy, not Xander.

I laughed out loud...once. "You walk alone. You walk alone!" That was funny. I was mildly concerned for Lorne, I guess. But everything else, I hated. Who are these people. Gunn thinks it's cool that Lorne had his sleep removed in order to service the needs of a law firm that protects the evil. Read that sentence again. Say it with me...whuhuh?

Also, and this is a minor point, why wouldn't they at least have tried having Lorne tell them all to be normal in order to facilitate fixing the situation? Oh, right, because then we would have missed out on all that fun drunk-acting. And Angel-sexing. That part annoyed me the most, because Angel and Eve have no sexual tension, and Lorne, having eyes and a brain, would have known that. To me, this episode had the same problems as "Something Blue." In that one, Willow's will was supposed to be done, but none of the things that happened were in any way her will. In fact, two of the things she made happen came from descriptive, not imperative sentences. This one was the same way, with Lorne making things happen that I doubt very much were in his subconscious, just waiting to get out. Lorne's magical power apparently was to make stuff happen that would look funny in a script (although not play out that way, in my opinion) I don't really think I'm nitpicking, because if this episode was supposed to develop Lorne's character, it would have been nice if we'd seen some manifestations of things he really wanted. That would have been interesting. This was...well, like the HulkLorne. Big and flashy and good at hitting you over the head with stuff. But lacking the charm and grace of the real Lorne.

I think because it's too dangerous to mess with people's destinies. As Willow's example shows, that kind of thing is highly unpredictable and can't be controlled. I bought it in both "Something Blue" and here — when they felt extreme emotion, it just radiated out, and their words directed it, but not necessarily in a desired fashion. If Lorne said "Be normal" to them, he could have made Angel not a vampire, or, say, dead, as he normally would be. He could have made Wesley and Fred stupider, because they're more than normally intelligent. If he'd told Gunn to stop peeing, he might have lost the ability permanently. You just wouldn't know.

I think that the subconscious Lorne was the one doing most of the things he wanted — killing the Pylean- and human-clad demons. But then when it got attacked, it just started hitting back, no matter who it was... although I imagine Lorne was feeling some anger toward the whole gang for their lackadasical, unfun attitude. And he did desperately want them to have fun, which they did. Even Gunn, whose experience you'd think was the least enjoyable, said that it was a great party.

I just found something else in this episode I found funny. Spike thinking the dance song was "the best song ever written." My two funniest moments in an Angel episode were Spike and Fred. The world has topsy-turvied. I will say, on rewatch, I found the whole thing slightly more amusing and less labored. The drama was all off, though. Fred with the gun-thing, for instance, was bizarre, since we knew she needed to shoot Lorne, and it wasn't drawn out enough for any sort of dramatic irony to kick in.

Knox is still cute, though. Except for the whole evil thing, which had better be, like, an actual issue at some point.

Oh, Knox is evil, yeah, with like a "capital E" Evil. I don't trust his smarmy ass for a second.

I have to agree with ejg25, this was an enjoyable episode for me. It's the first episode I actually took the time to rewatch, to catch some things I might have missed. (That was my benchmark for an enjoyable Buffy episode, re-watchability.) I'm not looking for grand plots or even continuity from last season. Truthfully, I guess I'd like to forget last season ever happened. I'm beyond looking for grand saga in this show, I'm just looking for a distracting hour of television.

What I did like was points that interested me:

The way Wesley kept grabbing Fred and carting her around like a handbag, the leatherface demon spouting bumper sticker slogans like they were the funniest thing ever (which to a demon might be the truth), the warrior demon who gets killed while taking a dump, Harmony's personality bubbling all over the episode,
And the demon royalty and his incredibly creepy little walking beverage cart (Bonus points to whomever came up with that one, BTW.)

I like the assumptiuon that there are myriad types of demonkind and certain social mores that are expected to be followed. Since WolfRam&Hart is a law office and certain appearances must be maintained, I hope the L.A.Law-Meets-Jossverse plotlines continue.

I didn't notice anything new on the rewatch, but whole episode seemed to flow more smoothly the second time around, which took the edge off a bit.

Oh my G-d, you watched it AGAIN?

You're made of sterner stuff than I am.

That's me. I'm a tough old broad. And kind of loopy. ;P

I watch them all again. But I rewatched this one with great pleasure, whereas sometimes (in late Buffy, say) it was a painful chore.

I stopped mandatory rewatches during the Buffy Season 6/Angel Season 3 period. I just...couldn't. I haven't seen most of either of those (or Buffy Season 7) since they aired.

I was addressing Boliver specifically though, as she had indicated that she hated it so I was surprised (impressed?) that she could sit through it again. I'm sure those who enjoyed it had no problem with the rewatch :)

Which actually reminds me of something. Weren't you not going to be watching this season at all?





Not hard enough, eh? That's one of the things I love about you: your bootless end-of-each-season fist-shaking. And the fact that you keep watching anyway.

Hee. I really did mean it those times. (Whereas any threats to stop watching Buffy I knew were empty.) I was actually a bit disappointed when word came in on that "front" that meant I'd still be watching. Weird, I know. But it is the honest truth that I'm not watching on the same level I was- even last year of Buffy had more investment. There was still that "New Buffy" rush, that hope that maybe, *maybe* a character I still love will remind me why I love them. Now I have nothing to look forward to. In any episode. At all. I'm watching so I have what to talk about with people I like.

Out of curiosity, what front was that? If it's not spoilery.

The continued existence of TWoP- for the recaps more than for the boards, actually. There was certainly a part of me that didn't think I could give up discussing Angel here either, regardless of TWoP, even though I get to talk to all of you about lots of other things.

It wasn't Cordelia or Connor, if that's what you're wondering, although I definitely always planned to watch any episodes they might turn up on.

I know! The thing is, in order to give any episode of Angel a fair chance, I have to watch it first without recording it to tape. That way, any little line or nuance I miss or want to see again I can use the 8-second TiVo rewind on. If I'm recording to tape at the same time, I can't rewind anything without ruining the copy. This particular time, it was the Saturday after a tough week and I really needed to lounge around and watch TV for my sanity. So, I started recording the episode to tape (after having seen it Thursday night) and was doing chores around the house when I stopped to sit on the couch and just didn't get up again. It was half-voluntary.

There were potentially two non-Angel things that may have influenced my opinion the first time around. First, though Mr. B gave up on the show long ago and stopped watching with me, he was too lazy to get off the couch during my first watching; my standards are always higher with him sitting there. It's a thing. Second, we had shifted around the living room furniture so that I had to sit on the couch to watch, and the couch is too far away from the TV, and not very comfortable for me, so I got distracted by that.

This isn't to say that the episode didn't actually suck the first time around for me, but there were other factors that increased the suckitude of the experience.

And now you ask, SNeak: why do you still archive this show to tape? Pure, unadulterated Buffy-related OCD, that's why.

Dude, I still tape it too, which has my mother throwing her hands up in disgust every week. But I need to for the above mentioned archive OCD, as well as to check stuff if I'm having a discussion with someone. (Let's go to the videotape!)

But do you do it without the commercials? All my tapes are commercial-free, which requires at least a minimum of awareness of the show as it progresses. It's a burden, but I can't stop.

Not taping is Satan's workshop. I didn't tape Season One the first time it aired, because I wasn't moved to. I knew at the time that I'd probably regret it, and I came to desperately regret it in the long years before the DVDs came out. The point is that hindsight often casts a different light on episodes you thought were unimportant at the time.

Ha - I'm totally like this. This is why I dislike watching TV with my parents.

Well, I thought that was much better. There were a lot of really sick elements to it, which were interesting, particularly the gimp, who fascinated/horrified me. I couldn't quite believe they'd get away with that, with his 'peepee' licking, the collar, the whole S&M thing.

And thank god we finally got some development for Lorne, who I love but have been feeling was weirdly desire-free for too long. The gay best friend cliche is a bit done, the guy who's happily there for his friends without any needs of his own. So, I liked the idea that his bonhomie and always-on attitude was a front for a guy who basically doesn't like himself and feels he can only do one, possibly useless, thing (he's totally wrong, but given his ghastly upbringing I can see why he'd think so). One other thing I'd like them to mention, somehow, is how Lorne managed to so completely soak up Earth pop-culture in just five years. I like to think he tried to block out everything Pylean after escaping and wanted to learn it all to fit in, even though as a demon he obviously never could. I also liked very much Angel looking after him at the end - about time, after the many times Lorne has looked after them all. Hmm. Is Lorne the 'heart' of the group ... ?

Other good stuff: Wesley and Fred are fun drunks. I especially liked the part where Wesley solemnly congas by, doing a little dance with his fingers. I could think about the issue of whether Fred's lack of any remote interest in Wesley is related to her not remembering sexy angsty rough Wesley, but who knows? Knox is cute - he's no Wesley, obviously, and if you had a chance at a Wesley, or a Gunn, or an Angel, he wouldn't have a look-in, but if like most of us you're not that lucky, a Knox would be perfectly nice. Er, if he wasn't evil, which he is with the whole Wicker Man thing.

Gunn looked damnably handsome in his red shirt, so I will politely ignore the pissing nonsense. I will say it reminded me of the stupid storyline that was inflicted on Worf in that awful Star Trek: Insurrection crap.

Angel and Eve, yes, NO sexual chemistry whatsoever. Why is Eve? No, really, why? However, I agree that Angel is very likeable this year.

Spike was much better as a cheery cheeky chappie, wish he'd stay that way. And I also liked the use of music, the beginning where it swirled around as Lorne danced his way through work, then cut off dead when he was on his own, and then the randomness of Spike liking that crappy dance track and everyone just knowing that couldn't be right. Andy Hallett is a very good dancer.

What's the Wicker Man thing?



I have a good answer for this: fandom. We've managed to absorb and retain massive amounts of detail about the Buffyverse in five years or so. And that's Lorne's relationship to this world.

Yes, hee, that works! He's like the guy who got to go and live in his fantasy world, like someone getting to go live in the Angelverse. Hmm, now you've given me the idea that when he was in Pylea, Lorne used to secretly sneak off and question the human slaves about their world and from them got to dreaming about how much better things were over there. Maybe that 'accidental' sucking-in to our dimension wasn't such an accident. He's a smart guy, maybe he did some research and found out how to do it. He certainly was rather vague about it all.

Knox talked with glee about how the previous year's party featured a lot of animals being put into a Wicker Man and set on fire; possibly he was about to go on to talk about a person being put in too, like the ending of The Wicker Man movie, where the policeman is on one level of it and there are animals in the others. Even if there wasn't a person in it, getting a kick out of setting animals alive is pretty evil.

Thanks. Though now I wonder why the policeman was in there.



Ooh, I like that idea a lot. It intensifies the Wizard of Oz evocations from that initial arc. Lorne is Dorothy, except he got to stay in Oz.

I think it was implied that Lorne fell through the hole when Fred read from the book five years previously in the library... or there was that comment that, in her frantic attempts to get back, she might have been making portals in random places without knowing it. Maybe Lorne came through one of those.

Then that was pretty lucky for him, wasn't it? Maybe he saw the portal appear and jumped in. Actually, Dorothy did eventually (in a later book) move permanently to Oz.
Somewhere, thro-ugh the portal, way up high, there's a land that I've heard of, where they have lullabies.

You've never seen The Wicker Man? Well, unfortunately I've now spoiled the end, but you really, really should. Quickly, before the bloody Neil LaBute/Nic Cage remake comes out.

Well, that makes perfect sense.

Hey, that wasn't bad. A bit slow paced at the start, but I laughed. (At Angel watching ice hockey, Wesley dancing, and Spike: "what a fantastic entrance!".)

But basically I still only care about three of the now insanely large cast of characters: Angel, Wesley and Spike (I know...). Anybody spot the link?

It was theoretically nice to see Lorne get a bit of screen time (what has he been doing all season?) but I'd still rather see him in an occasional guest spot than as a regular. I think the character worked best when he was the host at Caritas, and hasn't done much since. And his neuroses ("I'm working too hard and don't feel my skills are valuable") were not in the end all that interesting.

And I really just don't Get It this season. I can't figure out why they are working themselves into the ground for an evil law firm. The more they angst about it the more ridiculous it seems. I can enjoy episodes on a week-by-week basis but I'm not at all engaged in the arc (if there is one).

They all have penises? They were all born in the U.K.? They all can't dance?

Heh. You know.

I don't care at all about Spike. I'm still fond of all the others, I suppose, but the overall story just isn't grabbing me.

These episodes aren't very rewatch-worthy. I liked this well enough first time round, but tonight all I could think was, 'hmm, I'd like to go dancing with Lorne. And I'd like to get drunk with Wesley and Fred. Fred and I could have a giggle, then she could pass out and Wesley ... well, Wesley would be drunk ... and vulnerable.'

I like your thinking...