I heard some commentary that might help you better understand this. Apparently, the entire process of burying a Pope is designed to reinforce in the followers' minds that the Pope has died. From what I understand, the long laying out period is so people can see the Pope deteriorate with their own eyes. Once all the ritual of burying the Pope is finished, it will have been reinforced over and over again, in various ways, that the Pope has moved on. The visualization of this is deemed very necessary, hence the laying out of the body for a week. This ritual has been designed so that, by the end of it, Catholics will have grieved enough for the dead Pope and will be more willing to accept a new Pope.

As for the question at hand, I'm with eej (again). I want to be kept alive. Yes, it probably is selfish but hey, that's who I am and the people who love me know that.

Actually, all Roman Catholic funerals require the body to be present for all aspects of the funeral. Typically, there's a vigil the day and evening before the funeral (often with a Rosary prayed in the evening), then the next day there is a funeral Mass at the church before proceeding to the cemetary for more prayers and burial. If the deceased is to be cremated, it takes place after the funeral Mass. There are special guidelines (and approval required) if cremation occurs before the funeral Mass. After cremation, the ashes are supposed to be buried or entombed. Because more and more Catholics are choosing to be cremated, some Roman Catholic churches and cemetaries are building columbariums for ashes.

The Pope's body being on display isn't really that different from any other Catholic funeral. He's just being displayed for a longer time. And being seen by a lot more people.

It's very interseting to read other peoples thoughts on what is such a personal matter.

Death doesn't scare me, but the idea of existing in some sort of non-responsive vegetative state just terrifies me. I would much rather have someone flick the switch and donate my organs in order to give someone else a better chance at life.

I had a talk with my parents about this and we're all of the same mind, however my sister doesn't agree. Should anything happen to my parents I would hate to battle the issue out with her.

Does a living will have to be drawn up by an attorney?

NatCat, there's a fair bit of information on the position in Australia here.

I have a potentially fatal genetic illness, and I've made my views very, very clear to my parents: I don't want to be kept alive in a vegetative state, if it comes to that. I've given this an enormous amount of thought over the past few years, and again more recently since my illness is active again. I'll fight like a wildcat to stay alive and functional and cognitive, but if alive is nothing more than a blank existence, I don't want it.

I have my driver's license marked for organ donation, but I doubt they'd want too many of mine given their state. But I'm happy to pass over what can be used.

I find it very interesting the different views expressed in this thread as well. They tend to be rather polar - "keep me going, I ain't finished yet" or "switch me off, I'm done for". Though I guess there isn't really much of a middle ground to choose from in this case.

I wonder about what causes people to have the different views. Is it cultural? Spritiual? What?

I don't really believe it has much to do with how selfish we might or might not be. There is somewhat more to it than that.

In Sneaker's case the answer seems relatively clear, she is following the dictates of her religion. Is religious background a factor in our decision, regardless of whether we are religious now?

I'm really not sure.

Personally, I am staunchly atheist and do not recall a time that I ever believed in a divine being. This is despite the fact that when I was young I attended church services with my parents (Uniting Church) and attended Sunday school. I do not believe in seperation of body and soul - souls cannot transmigrate in any of the forms that different religions propose, whether it be ascension to a higher plane of existence, heaven, hell or rebirth into another body. You would think that this view would make me more likely to want to cling to this life with every fibre of my being - it's the only life of any form that I've got. And despite the fact that I don't believe in separation of body and soul I do believe it's possible to be dead and for the body to be kept "alive". I confuse even myself.

Does religion ever make people lean towards the side of "turn me off"?

Perhaps religion has nothing to do with it for many people. Does a more positive or negative outlook on life influence the decision. Do people who are more optimistic or pessimistic by nature lean in certain directions. Optimists leaning towards "keep me going", pessimists towards "turn me off".

I guess there must be a mutitude of factors and in many cases none is definitively determining.

I still don't think I get it, eej, and I doubt that I will. I can understand that some people's religious belief prevents them from donating their organs (for example if they believe in the resurrection of the body (though I'm not sure how decomposition factors into that, but anyway ...)). I don't believe what they believe, but I can understand that their belief system is consistent.

I guess what I don't get is "the integrity of the body", and why it's important to you. My body is always changing - I gain weight, I lose weight, I give blood, I have plastic lenses floating about on my eyeballs, I have a plastic implant pumping out levonorgestrel ... I don't have holes in my ears or ink under my skin, but plenty of people do.

I find it hard to balance a gut feeling (boom, boom) that the body ought to remain intact against the potentially life-saving effects of donation.

On VP's point, I am agnostic but I do consider myself an optimist. I think a lot of my views in this area are coloured by my mother being a doctor, and my having been exposed to a lot of medical information all my life. The woman who gave birth to me has sliced people open and sawn their bones - maybe that makes me feel differently about medical procedures. I'd also basically trust her judgement on when to pull the plug on me - she's a realist.

FYI, I was using the "wholeness" definition of "integrity."

Just because I'm not religious doesn't mean my beliefs aren't consistent or that I don't have a philosophical/spiritual construct or an equally legitimate right to self-determinism.

Of course I've got no problem with medical procedures or medical science. However, surgeries and the like have the goal of making you better, more whole than you were when you started out, or at least eventually getting there. By contrast, I'm picturing my body in a coffin with no eyes or insides... and I would not want that.

I don't know that religion is the answer VP - I'm not conventinaly religious - I believe in something but not in the way that most religons would define it or want to define it.

It seems to me that its more about what point we decide our life has ended to some of us it's when our brains no longer function - that is how we define our selfs. To others it's when the body no longer functions.

Same with organ donation if the body is important to you then the idea of bits not being there is wrong. If you feel that the personality and the mind were what's most important then you don't mind bits being used again.

I've been thinking about why I'm not understanding what you're saying, eej. I wonder if we have fundamentally different attitudes to our bodies?

For me, my body is a tool. I enjoy it, it occasionally pisses me off, but it's not related to the essence of who I am. (Tied into this, I've never been able to understand what drives transexuals, because if I woke up tomorrow and I was a man I think I'd still feel like me. A taller, deeper-voiced and very surprised me, but me nonetheless.)

I feel that my personality isn't related to my body as a whole, just to electrical impulses in my brain - and once they switch off, my body will be just biological goo. Consequently, what happens to it after I'm dead doesn't bother me.

This distinction between my body and my self is a pretty deep-rooted and fundamental axiom for me - so much so that I've only just properly realised that I have it and that maybe not everybody shares it. I don't think it's related to religious belief as one could easily feel the same way as I do and also believe in the soul.

So I'm not accusing you of inconsistent beliefs but I think that my axiom and your views maybe are inconsistent. Which leads me to suspect that your axiomatic beliefs about the body and the self are possibly different from mine.

I guess I should have taken Philosphophy of the mind rather than Feminist ethics as my subsidiary at uni, then I'd have a more coherent and communicable take on all this.

ETA: Ha! And there Meowcat summed up all my ramblings in two concise sentences.

I guess Homer Wells' most basic thought in John Irving's Cider House Rules sums up my opinion on organ donation: I just want to be of use.

In terms of burial, I find the idea that my body will continue to take up space on this earth, when my mind isn't here, to be offensive, as if I am imposing my will on a planet that would not want me there. I'm not feeling particularly happy towards humans right now, and find most of us, globally, to not be pushing towards the kind of future I'd want our kids to have; not only is this bitter-making, but it makes me not want to have more of a presence on the earth than I have to. I'm not here any more, when I'm dead, so why should my body be?

I don't find others' desire to be buried to be offensive, though I do tend to think of it as a waste of space, but that waste of space is a small thing compared to following through on what those people would have wanted.

I understand that funerals are for the dead, but they're also a show of how much my loved ones loved me, and if they loved me, they'd show that by respecting my wishes. I deeply respected Nate on Six Feet Under for caring for his wife in this way, and though I assume my remains wouldn't require the same level of, uh, planning and potential legal ramifications, I'd like to think one of my loved ones would consider going that far to make my dead self satisfied.

I now consider myself to be athiest, though for a long time I thought I was agnostic. I generally don't think highly of religion (though I find it fascinating) because I've never seen an instance in someone I know of their religion helping them in a way that self-sufficiency and confidence wouldn't have. I see no proof of God at all, anywhere, and don't think that any one person has a destiny. When our time's up, we're lucky to have had any time at all, though most of us probably didn't contribute all that much to each other globally except for perhaps companionship.

Ah, my feelings on cremation vs. burial are very simple. I don't want my body to decompose in a box somewhere. The idea that someday I might be all dressed up and put on display in a box for all of my relatives to see doesn't bother me. Funerals are for the living, after all. I know that I won't really be there, so it shouldn't effect me. But the idea of staying in that box and eventually rotting away? No, thanks. If I'm done with the world, why can't the world be done with me? Put me in an oven, then put what's left in a drawer in a cemetary. Preferably, somewhere with a nice tree and a bench nearby, so that if someone does come by, they at least have someplace nice to visit.

Personally, when it comes to being kept alive artificially, I'd rather be let go. I'd want my loved ones to say their goodbyes but if there really wasn't any hope of me recovering, then why prelong my life/suffering and the pain of those around me.

In regards to organ donation, I would like to think that i would let them be used to help others but I don't think I'd actually do it. As it stands at present, I'm not a donor and that's my mother's influence. She's a doctor and a very opinionated one on this issue and when i was younger and didnt know much, she advised me to not be a donor. Her argument is that she's seen how organs are removed and what's left and it's not a dignified way to be, cut up etc with parts missing. I agree with her in some respects but not all. Like I said earlier, i like the idea of donating but the thought of not being physically whole makes me hesitant and doubtful i'd do it, unless it was for someone in my family.

I consider myself to be a Catholic, at least i was brought up as one and tend to believe the whole having a soul thing and death not being the end and going to heaven etc....or at least, somewhere....just dying and my body rotting away at that being the end of it all doesn't sit comfortably with me for some reason, i'd just like to think there's more to life and death than just that. it's just so clinical and scientific....for me this is just a faith thing. I'm not sure whether it really will happen the way i believe and i respect other pov's.

Funeral wise, I'd probably want a religious one.Whether i am buried or cremated doesn't bother me as long as there is a place my family can visit (even if it's not a cemetary) to be close to me.

Seeing as I'm still pretty young, i have no doubt that in 10 yrs my opinions could be vastly different but for the moment they are as they are.